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Badger In France


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#16 Waz

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:53 am

 

 

Why's that then ?

With respect, its sort of one of them questions which says more about the person asking, one day you may realise the answer. 

With respect no it isn't, Only fools assume!!

I'm all for releasing quarry for future sport, I just wanted to know why he said so.


One day I may realise lol jog on, who do you think you are.

 

So youve asked a question and now you've just had a good guess at answering it. Does everything have to be spelt out for you, can you not read between the lines? Like I said speaks more about the person asking the questions.

 

Who do I think I am? Im someone who jogged on   :victory:


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#17 j1985

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:24 am

1 - I asked Johnny 1990 why, not you. 

 

2 - If you assumed that I was of the thinking that all quarry dug to should be dispatched and then continued to assume so after I'd all ready said that I was all for letting it run for another day then it says more about your mental capacity for understanding the most basic of questions without assuming I had a underlying agenda for killing everything and anything.

 

3 - What was it that gave you that impression ? Was it possibly the bulldog in my avatar ? The fact I keep a bull lurcher ? The joke I cracked before I posted to Johnny ? Those facts right there surely must mean I'm into matching dogs or baiting animals, surely right ?? Or maybe you thought so because your the type of person that stereotypes and assumes a lot ? 

 

4 - You can spell out what you like, I'm a highly educated man with a good grasp of the English language so fire away.

 

5 - Thank you for jogging on, it's much appreciated. When you've returned had shower and sorted yourself out why not come back on here and make some more assumptions on people for asking questions that definitely have more than one answer so clearly could be explained a little more in depth like Johnny's was.



#18 Pedwar

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:40 am

 

 

 

Why dig it ti let it go, thats what I think gives hnting a bad name because its principally baiting

got to agree. if you dig it up just to let it go you dont have a leg to stand on when Mr Townie comes along and says its cruel because your only doing it for your own pleasure imo. either do the job properly or dont do it at all. 

 

 

too many people take the sport to heart it's not a job,,,,,, it's a HOBBY,,,,, you don't shoot yourself on the foot for the next time when hunting and if you do kill/shoot all try put back in what you take out it keeps the circle going :thumbs:

 

your never going to dig to every single fox in the are in one winter anyway are you? If you were out with the terriers every day smashing every set in sight then i can see your point. but foxes spend most of their time above ground so using a terrier isnt going to wipe them out. 

 

 

This thread isnt about foxes


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#19 kranky

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:45 am

 

Why's that then ?

With respect, its sort of one of them questions which says more about the person asking, one day you may realise the answer. 

 

What is the answer? I'm asking because I can't see any answer other than you're the sort of person that wants dogs to bait an animal and then release it to be baited again. If it needs digging then dig it and kill it. If it doesn't need removing then leave it alone.

Should I take bunnies out of my lurchers mouth and set them free for him to run them again?

 

If you're that worried about being able to find game to get another dig or wiping out a local population, then that says more about the person with those worries and their lack of knowledge or fieldcraft. One day you may realise that you are advocating cruelty.



#20 Born Hunter

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:31 am

 

 

Why's that then ?

With respect, its sort of one of them questions which says more about the person asking, one day you may realise the answer. 

 

What is the answer? I'm asking because I can't see any answer other than you're the sort of person that wants dogs to bait an animal and then release it to be baited again. If it needs digging then dig it and kill it. If it doesn't need removing then leave it alone.

Should I take bunnies out of my lurchers mouth and set them free for him to run them again?

 

If you're that worried about being able to find game to get another dig or wiping out a local population, then that says more about the person with those worries and their lack of knowledge or fieldcraft. One day you may realise that you are advocating cruelty.

 

 

Is catch and release in fishing wrong too?



#21 kranky

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:36 am

Why's that then ?

With respect, its sort of one of them questions which says more about the person asking, one day you may realise the answer.

What is the answer? I'm asking because I can't see any answer other than you're the sort of person that wants dogs to bait an animal and then release it to be baited again. If it needs digging then dig it and kill it. If it doesn't need removing then leave it alone.
Should I take bunnies out of my lurchers mouth and set them free for him to run them again?
 
If you're that worried about being able to find game to get another dig or wiping out a local population, then that says more about the person with those worries and their lack of knowledge or fieldcraft. One day you may realise that you are advocating cruelty.

 
Is catch and release in fishing wrong too?


Really? Are you serious? Maybe you should get a bit of experience of digging and then you'll be able to make a sensible comment.

#22 Born Hunter

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:48 am

 


Really? Are you serious? Maybe you should get a bit of experience of digging and then you'll be able to make a sensible comment.

 

 

I have a 'bit of experience' thankyou kranky. So tell me, you want to go for a dig but have no need to kill everything you dig and the quarry is in a fit state to be released, should it not be released? Perhaps you only have experience with dogs that leave quarry in a bad way. Just commenting based on my 'bit of experience'...... And also, how is what I have described any different really to fishing?



#23 kranky

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:08 am

Really? Are you serious? Maybe you should get a bit of experience of digging and then you'll be able to make a sensible comment.

 
I have a 'bit of experience' thankyou kranky. So tell me, you want to go for a dig but have no need to kill everything you dig and the quarry is in a fit state to be released, should it not be released? Perhaps you only have experience with dogs that leave quarry in a bad way. Just commenting based on my 'bit of experience'...... And also, how is what I have described any different really to fishing?


So you're an experienced catch and release digger. What's your justification for digging? Just because you want to? Why bother digging? Why not just let your dog have a bay until it gets bored/tired/hungry/thirsty and then comes out? Your dogs obviously would do this because they don't engage their quarry and leave it unmarked.
What about the landowner who's asking you to dig to protect his game birds, will he be happy that you're letting bird killers go?

Do you need me to explain how a dog going to ground, in the "home" of it's quarry, a socially interactive mammal and attacking and harassing it, sometimes for extended periods, before the vibrations of digging start and then that animal is dragged into the daylight is different to catching a fish? If you do I think you're better off buying "My First Book of Animals".

An experienced terrierman and digger comparing working an earth and fishing, you're having a laugh!!!! Explain to me how fishing is the same as digging. Share your experience with me.

#24 Simoman

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:13 am

We can dress it up anyway we want but more than 99.9% of us hunt because we enjoy it, yes we are assisting the farmers by keeping rat, rabbit, fox populations in check.  But lets be honest, we don't breed, rear, pay for food, vet bills, equipment, kennels purely to assist farmers.  For me hunting has never been about the kill, thats just sometimes the end product.  I enjoy seeing a dog work, whether that a terrier finding a rat on the river bank or a dog lifting a rabbit in the beam.  It's about control, not eradication.  If an animal isn't causing a nusiance, the farmer/keeper doesn't demand a kill then, aslong as the animal isn't injured why not let it run free?  Unfortunately current legislation demands any fox dug too must be despatched anyway...............



#25 kranky

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:28 am

We can dress it up anyway we want but more than 99.9% of us hunt because we enjoy it, yes we are assisting the farmers by keeping rat, rabbit, fox populations in check.  But lets be honest, we don't breed, rear, pay for food, vet bills, equipment, kennels purely to assist farmers.  For me hunting has never been about the kill, thats just sometimes the end product.  I enjoy seeing a dog work, whether that a terrier finding a rat on the river bank or a dog lifting a rabbit in the beam.  It's about control, not eradication.  If an animal isn't causing a nusiance, the farmer/keeper doesn't demand a kill then, aslong as the animal isn't injured why not let it run free?  Unfortunately current legislation demands any fox dug too must be despatched anyway...............


Exactly. I'm not trying to do a great service to the farming/keeping community, protecting environmental health or helping prevent world hunger. I hunt because I enjoy it. If I didn't I'd want paying for it. But I have respect for all my quarry and if I don't need to kill something I'll leave it alone and let it be. Dig whatever you like but do it for the right reasons and finish the job.

#26 Born Hunter

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:01 pm

Seems we are just simply on different levels with this discussion. That's fine, we can't all agree.

 

My justifications for hunting anything are pretty clear, because I enjoy it. I'll not use any smoke and mirrors to try to make it any more morally acceptable. I hunt because I enjoy it, if I can eat what I kill I will, if it's a pest I'll assist the farmer how I can. But essentially, if I want to hunt a testing beast in a sporting manor and it's not endagering populations etc then I will for no other reason than I enjoy to hunt. So there is my justification. Similar I think to the justification to fish......

 

Next, a fox or whatever (depending on national laws) being dug with the use of a single terrier (depending on the style of the terrier and the attitude of the quarry) will be quite alright and healthy albeit a bit pissed perhaps. At least the fox will be bouncing with energy and bound off and pace afterwards, most decent fish require a good few minutes of recovery after their experience, often carrying the wounds for it. I really see no difference between say carp fishing and digging in terms of ethics. You're catching a wild animal and releasing it purely for your pleasure....... I'm not going to condemn one and not the other.

 

People hunt for sport, yet adamantly claim that they're doing it for 'pest control' or to 'fill the freezer'. Yeah alright, whatever helps them sleep at night.


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#27 Born Hunter

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:08 pm

 

We can dress it up anyway we want but more than 99.9% of us hunt because we enjoy it, yes we are assisting the farmers by keeping rat, rabbit, fox populations in check.  But lets be honest, we don't breed, rear, pay for food, vet bills, equipment, kennels purely to assist farmers.  For me hunting has never been about the kill, thats just sometimes the end product.  I enjoy seeing a dog work, whether that a terrier finding a rat on the river bank or a dog lifting a rabbit in the beam.  It's about control, not eradication.  If an animal isn't causing a nusiance, the farmer/keeper doesn't demand a kill then, aslong as the animal isn't injured why not let it run free?  Unfortunately current legislation demands any fox dug too must be despatched anyway...............


Exactly. I'm not trying to do a great service to the farming/keeping community, protecting environmental health or helping prevent world hunger. I hunt because I enjoy it. If I didn't I'd want paying for it. But I have respect for all my quarry and if I don't need to kill something I'll leave it alone and let it be. Dig whatever you like but do it for the right reasons and finish the job.

 

 

So it's alright to hunt for sport as long as the hunted quarry needs controlling or I assume is edible? That'd constitute 'the right reasons' yeah?

 

So in that sense, most mounted fox hunts are wrong? Let's not talk in whispers, the secrets out that most packs encourage and support a healthy fox population to ensure sport come the season.

 

Sport hunting IS conservation. Sport hunters love their quarry and do all they can to support a healthy population. 99% of us hunt for sport, those that 'catch & release' don't want to overhunt a healthy population but neither do they want to sit by and just 'talk hunting'.



#28 kranky

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:11 pm

:laugh: 

Seems we are just simply on different levels with this discussion. That's fine, we can't all agree.
 
My justifications for hunting anything are pretty clear, because I enjoy it. I'll not use any smoke and mirrors to try to make it any more morally acceptable. I hunt because I enjoy it, if I can eat what I kill I will, if it's a pest I'll assist the farmer how I can. But essentially, if I want to hunt a testing beast in a sporting manor and it's not endagering populations etc then I will for no other reason than I enjoy to hunt. So there is my justification. Similar I think to the justification to fish......
 
Next, a fox or whatever (depending on national laws) being dug with the use of a single terrier (depending on the style of the terrier and the attitude of the quarry) will be quite alright and healthy albeit a bit pissed perhaps. At least the fox will be bouncing with energy and bound off and pace afterwards, most decent fish require a good few minutes of recovery after their experience, often carrying the wounds for it. I really see no difference between say carp fishing and digging in terms of ethics. You're catching a wild animal and releasing it purely for your pleasure....... I'm not going to condemn one and not the other.
 
People hunt for sport, yet adamantly claim that they're doing it for 'pest control' or to 'fill the freezer'. Yeah alright, whatever helps them sleep at night.


I don't agree with you about the fishing or the catch and release digging but I'll respect your point of view because there's a reasoned argument to your thinking.

I've got plenty of time for people if they have valid reasons for their point of view.....................................even if they are WRONG!!!!!!! :laugh:



#29 Born Hunter

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:19 pm

 

:laugh: 

Seems we are just simply on different levels with this discussion. That's fine, we can't all agree.
 
My justifications for hunting anything are pretty clear, because I enjoy it. I'll not use any smoke and mirrors to try to make it any more morally acceptable. I hunt because I enjoy it, if I can eat what I kill I will, if it's a pest I'll assist the farmer how I can. But essentially, if I want to hunt a testing beast in a sporting manor and it's not endagering populations etc then I will for no other reason than I enjoy to hunt. So there is my justification. Similar I think to the justification to fish......
 
Next, a fox or whatever (depending on national laws) being dug with the use of a single terrier (depending on the style of the terrier and the attitude of the quarry) will be quite alright and healthy albeit a bit pissed perhaps. At least the fox will be bouncing with energy and bound off and pace afterwards, most decent fish require a good few minutes of recovery after their experience, often carrying the wounds for it. I really see no difference between say carp fishing and digging in terms of ethics. You're catching a wild animal and releasing it purely for your pleasure....... I'm not going to condemn one and not the other.
 
People hunt for sport, yet adamantly claim that they're doing it for 'pest control' or to 'fill the freezer'. Yeah alright, whatever helps them sleep at night.


I don't agree with you about the fishing or the catch and release digging but I'll respect your point of view because there's a reasoned argument to your thinking.

I've got plenty of time for people if they have valid reasons for their point of view.....................................even if they are WRONG!!!!!!! :laugh:

 

 

:laugh:  :thumbs:

 

Alright mate. Good to keep it civil. atb :good:



#30 Blaise

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:48 pm

What a debate !
 
We are very cautious concerning badger populations here. If you hunt to much, population can decrease. In some areas, badger hunters are numerous. So, they release a part of badgers. Hunter and responsible. 
 
Some have claimed that hunting was a great stress for badgers and that, after a hunt badgers were very wounded. If you have some experience, you know it's wrong. 
 
But a badger is learning quickly. Badgers hunted several times become difficult to hunt.

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