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The "big" Gas Ram Debate ,( Hw90 Vs Theobens )


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#1 tyephillips

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:28 am

Hi all,

I would really appreciate some feedback/technical knowledge regards gas rams and in particular the hw90 and older theobens with adjustable valve,

After some research and visits to my two local gun shops I have narrowed it down to the hw90 and Theobens and will be purchasing a gas ram in the near future with the intention to upgrade at a later date. I already own/use Rapid 7, hw100, s410 and tx200`s and understand that Pcp`s would be the better option or a tuned HW80.

So if you take the Theoben Eliminator and Crusader of the list would the older mk1 hw90 be the next best rifle for this with the longer stroke ( 110mm I believe ) and bigger bore of 30mm so better suited at higher power? Or maybe one of the older type Theobens?

I Look forward to all your replies

atb

Tye.

 



#2 Rake aboot

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:46 am

Reading between the lines, you are asking what would make the better FAC rated rifle.

 

Do you have an FAC ?



#3 thursodog

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:20 am

I have 2 hw80s one on my fac making just over 20 ft/lb fully tuned and with a vmach kit fitted. Shoots good and with enough pracrice I can group within a 5 p at 30 yards and getting progressively larger groups beyond. Head shots on rabbits at no more than 45 yards but would not chance any farther. My older 80 which I have recently restored and tuned is making 11.5 ft/lb and is very accurate and a joy to shoot. I can put a pellet in a bunnies brain box at 60 yards which is making think why I bother with the fac. I will probably drop it to sub 12 soon for greater accuracy and enjoyment.

Atb

C

#4 tyephillips

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:24 am

Reading between the lines, you are asking what would make the better FAC rated rifle.

 

Do you have an FAC ?

 

Well that is only part of the question, i would like to know if what i am asking is actually possible and worth while and not a total waste of time and money in putting it on ticket so would like the option to covert back to sub 12ftlbs and not lose money on the rifle, so more of a technical question really.

 

Cheers



#5 tyephillips

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:27 am

I have 2 hw80s one on my fac making just over 20 ft/lb fully tuned and with a vmach kit fitted. Shoots good and with enough pracrice I can group within a 5 p at 30 yards and getting progressively larger groups beyond. Head shots on rabbits at no more than 45 yards but would not chance any farther. My older 80 which I have recently restored and tuned is making 11.5 ft/lb and is very accurate and a joy to shoot. I can put a pellet in a bunnies brain box at 60 yards which is making think why I bother with the fac. I will probably drop it to sub 12 soon for greater accuracy and enjoyment.

Atb

C

 

Hello C,

 

Thanks for the info on the hw80, i was really asking regards gas rams and in particular the hw90 or theobens on how they perform and technical issues at different levels etc.

 

atb



#6 Rake aboot

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:44 am

 

Reading between the lines, you are asking what would make the better FAC rated rifle.

 

Do you have an FAC ?

 

Well that is only part of the question, i would like to know if what i am asking is actually possible and worth while and not a total waste of time and money in putting it on ticket so would like the option to covert back to sub 12ftlbs and not lose money on the rifle, so more of a technical question really.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Forget about trying to put an FAC rifle back off ticket,  That is nigh on impossible. Not many RFD`s will do it, and the cops aren`t keen to de-classify a gun back to non FAC cause it has already been modified to FAC so in theory is able to be made FAC again.

 

EIther get an FAC rifle , or don`t,

 

I modded a Falcon to FAC and I know I will never be able to take it off ticket again with out a major drama.

 

As for Gas ram. No issues at different powers, and Theoben and HW are virtually the same in terms of quality and accuracy.


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#7 pianoman

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:15 pm

You mentioned a tuned HW80 as one of your better options so, I think Chris naturally assumed this was an FAC spring rifle option you are looking at.... If by this rifle, you mean to convert it to FAC gas ram; you can but, putting a gas ram into an HW80 is not always a happy marriage. I don't know why but, some are good in conversion and others are not so. 

 

But if you are seriously going to have a Gas ram with a view to tuning-up the power to FAC, both the HW90 and Theoben Evolution make superb gas ram rifles that can take higher tuning on your ticket. My pal Andy here has a superb .20 calibre HW90 that would make an absolutely brilliant FAC air rifle.

 

Just be aware that shooting with an FAC rated gas ram usually produces a level of sharp and vicious snap of recoil that can smash your scope. You might need to consider upgrading this too.

 

Pianoman



#8 tyephillips

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:30 pm

You mentioned a tuned HW80 as one of your better options so, I think Chris naturally assumed this was an FAC spring rifle option you are looking at.... If by this rifle, you mean to convert it to FAC gas ram; you can but, putting a gas ram into an HW80 is not always a happy marriage. I don't know why but, some are good in conversion and others are not so. 

 

But if you are seriously going to have a Gas ram with a view to tuning-up the power to FAC, both the HW90 and Theoben Evolution make superb gas ram rifles that can take higher tuning on your ticket. My pal Andy here has a superb .20 calibre HW90 that would make an absolutely brilliant FAC air rifle.

 

Just be aware that shooting with an FAC rated gas ram usually produces a level of sharp and vicious snap of recoil that can smash your scope. You might need to consider upgrading this too.

 

Pianoman

 

Arrr Mr Pianoman,

 

Thats the kinda information i was getting at, to the point and relevent to what i am asking, as i am fully aware of fac policy/rules and the complecations regarding buying fac and sub 12.

 

So back to the question, both the hw90 and maybe the theoben evolution could be up to the job, i understand your a big fan of the hw80 and also am myself after shooting a pals venom tuned fac one and must say what a joy to use, but would really like a gas ram and after some research ( if you can confirm ) have found the older mk1 hw90 may have a longer stroke and bore size for this purpose?. Is your pal andy wanting to sell his hw90 or is it his pride and joy?

 

Cheers



#9 thursodog

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:00 pm

WOOPS!! Al get me coat :icon_redface:  :icon_redface:  :D



#10 bwfc

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:11 pm

I had my BSA Goldstar converted to Gas Ram and i didnt like it as it didnt suit the rifle.I had spent ages getting the rifle to cock and fire smoothly,then fitting the gas ram messed that up!.



#11 tyephillips

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:46 pm

WOOPS!! Al get me coat :icon_redface:  :icon_redface:  :D

 

I was ref to FAC policy/rules and rifles on ticket etc. don't get me wrong I think the hw80 is one of or the best self contained rifles in FAC, but was after info on gas ram.... :D  



#12 thursodog

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:16 pm

Sorry mate read your post on my shity little galaxy and missed the gas ram bit.

Good luck with the ram, i'm happy with a spring and just love the sub 12 80s after a bit of fettling and tuning.

 

Atb

 

Chris.



#13 pianoman

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:13 am

 

You mentioned a tuned HW80 as one of your better options so, I think Chris naturally assumed this was an FAC spring rifle option you are looking at.... If by this rifle, you mean to convert it to FAC gas ram; you can but, putting a gas ram into an HW80 is not always a happy marriage. I don't know why but, some are good in conversion and others are not so. 

 

But if you are seriously going to have a Gas ram with a view to tuning-up the power to FAC, both the HW90 and Theoben Evolution make superb gas ram rifles that can take higher tuning on your ticket. My pal Andy here has a superb .20 calibre HW90 that would make an absolutely brilliant FAC air rifle.

 

Just be aware that shooting with an FAC rated gas ram usually produces a level of sharp and vicious snap of recoil that can smash your scope. You might need to consider upgrading this too.

 

Pianoman

 

Arrr Mr Pianoman,

 

Thats the kinda information i was getting at, to the point and relevent to what i am asking, as i am fully aware of fac policy/rules and the complecations regarding buying fac and sub 12.

 

So back to the question, both the hw90 and maybe the theoben evolution could be up to the job, i understand your a big fan of the hw80 and also am myself after shooting a pals venom tuned fac one and must say what a joy to use, but would really like a gas ram and after some research ( if you can confirm ) have found the older mk1 hw90 may have a longer stroke and bore size for this purpose?. Is your pal andy wanting to sell his hw90 or is it his pride and joy?

 

Cheers

 

You're welcome but, I don't think Andy wants to part with his HW90 .20 for anything! :huh: :cray: He really is seriously in love with it and the affair ain't likely to end anytime soon! Having shot with it, I can well see why! It is a pride-and-joy thing!

 

As for tuning an HW80 with a gas ram I'd suggest you take your query up with an experienced gunsmith who really knows his technicals here. It can be very much an either way road with putting a gas ram into an HW80. From what I remember of bad results and smashed scopes with this mod, it's not something I'd like to do to mine, if I'm being totally honest.  

 

If no better answer's forthcoming, I suggest you google around and see what comes back regarding the HW80 conversion and who can best advise you on carrying this out. It's beyond me to suggest anything further mate. :thumbs: 

 

If I was after an FAC, on-ticket gas ram air rifle, I would be looking for a Theoben Evolution .20 or HW90 in the same flavour. I want a rifle that can cope with the recoil of higher performance air.

 

Simon/Pianoman.


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#14 Rake aboot

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:06 am

 

You mentioned a tuned HW80 as one of your better options so, I think Chris naturally assumed this was an FAC spring rifle option you are looking at.... If by this rifle, you mean to convert it to FAC gas ram; you can but, putting a gas ram into an HW80 is not always a happy marriage. I don't know why but, some are good in conversion and others are not so. 

 

But if you are seriously going to have a Gas ram with a view to tuning-up the power to FAC, both the HW90 and Theoben Evolution make superb gas ram rifles that can take higher tuning on your ticket. My pal Andy here has a superb .20 calibre HW90 that would make an absolutely brilliant FAC air rifle.

 

Just be aware that shooting with an FAC rated gas ram usually produces a level of sharp and vicious snap of recoil that can smash your scope. You might need to consider upgrading this too.

 

Pianoman

 

Arrr Mr Pianoman,

 

Thats the kinda information i was getting at, to the point and relevent to what i am asking, as i am fully aware of fac policy/rules and the complecations regarding buying fac and sub 12.

 

So back to the question, both the hw90 and maybe the theoben evolution could be up to the job, i understand your a big fan of the hw80 and also am myself after shooting a pals venom tuned fac one and must say what a joy to use, but would really like a gas ram and after some research ( if you can confirm ) have found the older mk1 hw90 may have a longer stroke and bore size for this purpose?. Is your pal andy wanting to sell his hw90 or is it his pride and joy?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Oooooh get you

In future I`ll avoid dispensing advice your way then as you know it already.

 

Cheers.



#15 andyfr1968

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:05 pm

Both the 80 and the 90 will shoot happily enough up to around 20ft-lbs in .22. Any much higher than that and they start to suffer. Badly....

 

Pros and cons. The 90 will always be smoother to shoot but at higher power levels the recoil's not to everyone's taste. I'm not saying it's bad or harsh but they do go off with quite a snap. Easily managed though with a little practice. At these levels however, they are a lot harder to cock than the steel springed 80 and if weight's an issue then they do tip the scales a little higher. The 80 also has a more gentle (lazy) recoil on FAC when set up correctly.

 

A mate of mine also has a .20 90 that shoots at around 18ft-lbs on his FAC and that really is a very nice tool. Head shot bunnies out to around 70 yards with it's prefered diet of H and N FTTs.

 

My honest advice though is if you're looking for a springer to put on ticket is to look at the Diana side levers. 48, 52, or if you're feeling flush the 54. Second to none.

 

Edit to add... No, my 90's not for sale!!  :laugh:  :D


Edited by andyfr1968, 02 June 2013 - 11:37 pm.



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