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#1 TheVerminator

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:04 am

i feed a mostly raw meat and bone diet. With natural yogurt and eggs and fish oils.
but my question is, in your opinion is a human brand multi vita
min ok for dogs?

#2 silverfoxsid08

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:41 am

i would say yes to that mate



#3 paulus

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:07 am

if you feed a good ballanced diet there will be no need to suppliment this with any other form of vitamins as the dog should get all it requires from its food, the only time this won`t happen is with a poor diet or a health problem with the dog



#4 LaraCroft

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:06 am

if you feed a good ballanced diet there will be no need to suppliment this with any other form of vitamins as the dog should get all it requires from its food, the only time this won`t happen is with a poor diet or a health problem with the dog

:thumbs:

 

Agree. 

 

Human tablets are based on a person weighing 70 kg, not a dog, so the amounts in them, and the amounts needed, will be different. 


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#5 sandymere

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:40 am

The only time a dog or human needs vitamin supplements is when there is a known shortfall through mal absorption etc, then it will be to add in that vitamin . If a dogs diet doe not meet the needs of the dog then vitamin supplements are not the answer, sort the diet.
Pills seller promote vitamin supplements, now his and hers lol, but not many others.

Little background info vit C & E supplementation has shown to slow racing greyhound times, high doses antioxidant vitamins may slow healing, recent research in cancer patients showed those taking high dose vitamins died sooner, they stopped the research early as it was very marked.
So vitamin supplementation may slow your dog down, slow it healing ability and have broader health problems whereas a balanced diet seems to bring health benefits.

If desperate for a supplement try SupraNutaC http://www.thehuntin...der-supplement/

#6 Sirius

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:45 am

i feed a mostly raw meat and bone diet. With natural yogurt and eggs and fish oils.
but my question is, in your opinion is a human brand multi vita
min ok for dogs?

 

 

I would avoid products for the human market firstly on the grounds of dosage and secondly whether its safe for veterinary use.

 

Having worked for best part of my life in the veterinary medicines and supplements business, I do have a fair amount of interest and experience on this subject.
However I am happy to give my input but I am not going to get drawn into the rights and wrongs and technicality's of it all again with Sandymere if I can help it as its been done to death :thumbs:

People often supplement their dogs diets, even when the diet they are feeding is correct.
There can be many reasons for this from aiding a specific condition such as joint problems, skin conditions etc etc. Or to add nutrients which dogs do not always have in ready amounts in their normal diets. Many are In an easily digestible form where the dog can process them effectively and in turn can benefit general health.
 

However if you do use a supplement I would recommend you use the best quality available which is made for veterinary use rather than what's cheapest, as its likely to have little effect due to low quality active ingredients. Even when using medicines be careful with products for the human market, a good example of this is Ibruprophen which is the most common reason for poisoning in dogs as many owners consider that its good enough for them it must be good for my dog....Error :yes:

Good Hunting Sirius
 


Edited by Sirius, 11 April 2013 - 11:50 am.


#7 TheVerminator

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:37 am

thanks everyone for their input.,

#8 AirgunGuy

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:17 am

i feed a mostly raw meat and bone diet. With natural yogurt and eggs and fish oils.
but my question is, in your opinion is a human brand multi vita
min ok for dogs?

 

 

I would avoid products for the human market firstly on the grounds of dosage and secondly whether its safe for veterinary use.

 

Having worked for best part of my life in the veterinary medicines and supplements business, I do have a fair amount of interest and experience on this subject.
However I am happy to give my input but I am not going to get drawn into the rights and wrongs and technicality's of it all again with Sandymere if I can help it as its been done to death :thumbs:

People often supplement their dogs diets, even when the diet they are feeding is correct.
There can be many reasons for this from aiding a specific condition such as joint problems, skin conditions etc etc. Or to add nutrients which dogs do not always have in ready amounts in their normal diets. Many are In an easily digestible form where the dog can process them effectively and in turn can benefit general health.
 

However if you do use a supplement I would recommend you use the best quality available which is made for veterinary use rather than what's cheapest, as its likely to have little effect due to low quality active ingredients. Even when using medicines be careful with products for the human market, a good example of this is Ibruprophen which is the most common reason for poisoning in dogs as many owners consider that its good enough for them it must be good for my dog....Error :yes:

Good Hunting Sirius
 

Sorry for going a little off topic but what ingredients would you recommend for a healthy balanced diet for a dog? I would like to put my 3 on a completely raw diet but i would be worried that i wouldn't be giving them everything they need :thumbs:



#9 sandymere

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:02 am

I always wonder why someone would you want to put a dog on a completely raw diet, do the owners only eat raw food? Dogs and humans have spent good few thousand years together eating the same food, cooked and raw, and have done pretty well on it. Should we also refuse the dog modern improvements in health care, training, equipment etc as well as diet??.

Edited by sandymere, 12 April 2013 - 08:04 am.


#10 Country Joe

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:28 am

I have put this diet up a few times, as my Whippet appears to be doing well on it,
I do feed raw as he seems to prefer it, maybe as the Breeder weaned the pups on it.
1lb of raw mince Beef,or Lamb,or Chicken from Durham Animal Feeds, or 1lb raw Rabbit, frozen for three weeks, to try and kill tape worms, because Rabbit has little fat, when feeding it, I add a knob of melted Lard.Once a week i replace meat with a tin of oily fish, Sardines etc.
A good handful of Gain 20 percent protein,some appear to feed 28 percent, but ive been told if feeding meat, this would be too much protein.
Had this tip off here I grate Carrot and mix with Spinach, and freeze it, in a ice cube tray,
and a square given daily.
One 2.5 OZ of Gain Garmivit supplement daily.
Theres a lot of lads on here, that know a lot more about Animal Nutrition than i do, but as i say my dog appears to be looking good on the above feeding regime.

#11 AirgunGuy

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:38 am


I always wonder why someone would you want to put a dog on a completely raw diet, do the owners only eat raw food? Dogs and humans have spent good few thousand years together eating the same food, cooked and raw, and have done pretty well on it. Should we also refuse the dog modern improvements in health care, training, equipment etc as well as diet??.


Well wonder no more!!! For hundreds of thousands of years humans and dogs or more specifically their ancestors lived on natural foods. Natural unprocessed foods are better for us and them...fact!!!...and to mention dog training etc is nonsense...totally off topic!!!

Edited by AirgunGuy, 12 April 2013 - 09:03 am.


#12 LaraCroft

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:53 am

Agree about unprocessed - mine don't get packet or tins, or anything like that, and I don't eat that sort of stuff myself either. I make sausages and burgers - that way I know what is in them. My gang happily eat raw meat, raw veg, cooked meat and cooked veg, and the odd bit of pasta and rice. Whether it is cooked or not, it is "decent" and not processed. 


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#13 AirgunGuy

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:53 am

I feed main ingredient raw beef or cooked rabbit roughly 50%...brown bread, rice or pasta roughly 20%...handful of redmills racer roughly 20% and some chopped spinach and grated carrot. I give them sardines in oil a couple of times a week also and a codliver oil cap a couple of times a week. I'm not keen on giving too much dry dog food...especially cheap stuff like the redmills or gain...at 15 quid a bag the quality of the ingredients, especially the protien sources are poor. I definitely wouldn't feed these foods on their own. If they get too much dry they shit and drink water like fcuk...on mostly natural they hardly touch water and shit a lot less. Just sjows the amount of crap in cheap dry foods. Just my view ;-)
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#14 mushroom

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:53 am

The only time a dog or human needs vitamin supplements is when there is a known shortfall through mal absorption etc, then it will be to add in that vitamin . If a dogs diet doe not meet the needs of the dog then vitamin supplements are not the answer, sort the diet.
Pills seller promote vitamin supplements, now his and hers lol, but not many others.

Little background info vit C & E supplementation has shown to slow racing greyhound times, high doses antioxidant vitamins may slow healing, recent research in cancer patients showed those taking high dose vitamins died sooner, they stopped the research early as it was very marked.
So vitamin supplementation may slow your dog down, slow it healing ability and have broader health problems whereas a balanced diet seems to bring health benefits.

If desperate for a supplement try SupraNutaC http://www.thehuntin...der-supplement/

Agreed just recently found this out :laugh: If a dog is ill like mine (really bad absorption at the moment) Multi vits are safe to give and are beneficial but if the dog doesn't need them they are counterproductive especially with the dose with as mentioned which is set out for an adult human.

 

i feed a mostly raw meat and bone diet. With natural yogurt and eggs and fish oils.
but my question is, in your opinion is a human brand multi vita
min ok for dogs?

 

 

I would avoid products for the human market firstly on the grounds of dosage and secondly whether its safe for veterinary use.

 

Having worked for best part of my life in the veterinary medicines and supplements business, I do have a fair amount of interest and experience on this subject.
However I am happy to give my input but I am not going to get drawn into the rights and wrongs and technicality's of it all again with Sandymere if I can help it as its been done to death :thumbs:

People often supplement their dogs diets, even when the diet they are feeding is correct.
There can be many reasons for this from aiding a specific condition such as joint problems, skin conditions etc etc. Or to add nutrients which dogs do not always have in ready amounts in their normal diets. Many are In an easily digestible form where the dog can process them effectively and in turn can benefit general health.
 

However if you do use a supplement I would recommend you use the best quality available which is made for veterinary use rather than what's cheapest, as its likely to have little effect due to low quality active ingredients. Even when using medicines be careful with products for the human market, a good example of this is Ibruprophen which is the most common reason for poisoning in dogs as many owners consider that its good enough for them it must be good for my dog....Error :yes:

Good Hunting Sirius
 

lots of multi vits, antibiotics, pain relievers and other treatments are the same whether for animals or humans as you say the dose is the difference so if you get the dose right all will be fine. I've just bought all the medicine for my dog from the Chemist here, all produced for humans but the dose and frequency tailored for my dog.

 

Have to admit that to get it right and not use potentially harmful medication takes a lot of research :thumbs:


Edited by mushroom, 12 April 2013 - 09:54 am.

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#15 sandymere

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:40 am



I always wonder why someone would you want to put a dog on a completely raw diet, do the owners only eat raw food? Dogs and humans have spent good few thousand years together eating the same food, cooked and raw, and have done pretty well on it. Should we also refuse the dog modern improvements in health care, training, equipment etc as well as diet??.

Well wonder no more!!! For hundreds of thousands of years humans and dogs or more specifically their ancestors lived on natural foods. Natural unprocessed foods are better for us and them...fact!!!...and to mention dog training etc is nonsense...totally off topic!!!

Ah so you feed only raw to your dog???but whats this???

I feed main ingredient raw beef or cooked rabbit roughly 50%...brown bread, rice or pasta roughly 20%...handful of redmills racer roughly 20% and some chopped spinach and grated carrot. I give them sardines in oil a couple of times a week also and a codliver oil cap a couple of times a week. I'm not keen on giving too much dry dog food...especially cheap stuff like the redmills or gain...at 15 quid a bag the quality of the ingredients, especially the protien sources are poor. I definitely wouldn't feed these foods on their own. If they get too much dry they shit and drink water like fcuk...on mostly natural they hardly touch water and shit a lot less. Just sjows the amount of crap in cheap dry foods. Just my view ;-)


Rabbit cooked, brown bread (cooked processd), rice (cooked), pasta (cooked and processed), remills racer (cooked and very processed), sardines (cooked) Now thats what I call a natural raw diet!!!!!!




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