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best air gun to tune


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#1 lee8375dogs

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:34 pm

Hello guys my mate is thinking of buying an air rifle he asked me the best one to buy to tune problem is i have not owned air rifles in years so can anybody advise which spring gun is the best to buy

#2 pianoman

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:51 pm

I'm not sure what your friend is really after here. Spring or pre-charged action? :hmm: Smoothing to a sweeter performance or raising the power levels to FAC performance, or both?

In order to tune a rifle into a smooth, sweet cocking and shooting cycle, you need a really good quality rifle to begin with. Tuning is both a smoothing refinement of some already-existing characteristical fine qualities the rifle inherently possesses. And raising it's performance at higher muzzle velocities for shooting on a Firearms Certificate.

What does he want to do. specifically?

Pianoman

#3 Buster321c

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:26 pm

Ide ask `your mate ` what you really want ............. :thumbs:

#4 AirgunGuy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:37 pm

It is widely accepted that the Weihrauch springers respond best to tuning. Depends on what you want. If you want a smoother rifle with less recoil etc then buy a PCP ;-)

Edited by AirgunGuy, 15 October 2012 - 09:38 pm.


#5 secretagentmole

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:13 am

I will come up with another view (as usual) HW rifles are generally not the best to tune, they are pretty good straight out of the box. Start with a cheaper rifle something like an XS19, they respond well to tuning, new springs, piston liners etc. Trigger replacement with a WWT2 makes an even better rifle and they do not cost a fortune to start with!

#6 pianoman

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:50 pm

"HW rifles are generally not the best to tune"....

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: That's a beauty! It really is!

Simon
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#7 robwelsh

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:53 pm

Hahaha

#8 robwelsh

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:54 pm

Iv always been told, start with the best rifle you can afford, then see your options of tuning. Any gun gun be tuned. But if your looking for power, no forum accepts it.

#9 zini

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:23 pm

I will come up with another view (as usual) HW rifles are generally not the best to tune, they are pretty good straight out of the box. Start with a cheaper rifle something like an XS19, they respond well to tuning, new springs, piston liners etc. Trigger replacement with a WWT2 makes an even better rifle and they do not cost a fortune to start with!


Hi Mike,

I sort of see what you are trying to say there mate but I have to disagree as I would say get the best springer you can first then improve it.

If you tuned a SMK rifle it still wouldn't be as good as a HW out the box pal if you see what I mean.

A tuned HW (tuner depending) would run rings around most if not all other spring brands straight out the box and match a top of the range AA that is also tuned.

Si.

#10 pianoman

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:38 pm

Honestly Mike, with a command of a few marksmanship principles, you can take a professionally tuned HW rifle and take on a top dollar PCP with it. And it will be the skills of the shooter that will decide the outcome. The rifles will be well up there.

If SMK or Hatsan made a rifle that can honestly do as much as that, I'd buy them too. :thumbs:

Best wishes.

Simon
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#11 secretagentmole

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:45 pm

I know Simon, but if you are starting out ont he tuning thing and intending to do your own, as I read the OP post, what would you rather bog up first? £120 or £350?

If you stuff up tuning the XS19 at least you are not several hundred quid down the hole. This is the first go, so let's not run before we can walk, after all how many of us passed a driving test then got a Ferrari as a first car? Start small and affordable, then get the HW!

The HW will benefit from a tune, but the improvements may not be as noticeable to a novice as the SMK will be!

#12 AirgunGuy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:49 pm

I know Simon, but if you are starting out ont he tuning thing and intending to do your own, as I read the OP post, what would you rather bog up first? 120 or 350?

If you stuff up tuning the XS19 at least you are not several hundred quid down the hole. This is the first go, so let's not run before we can walk, after all how many of us passed a driving test then got a Ferrari as a first car? Start small and affordable, then get the HW!

The HW will benefit from a tune, but the improvements may not be as noticeable to a novice as the SMK will be!


A cheap and nasty SMK will always be a cheap and nasty SMK no matter what you do to it. A properly tuned HW will last a lifetime if well looked after.

To suggest that the guy is gonna make an a..e of it is an insult.

Get the best you can afford mate and go for it. You can pick up 97k in good condition for around 250-300 and fit something like a v-mach kit.

Do some research online as there is loads of info on how to fit them. It's not rocket science. If you're half decent with your hands and have half a brain then it's fairly simple. I fitted my own and it really was simple. My 10 yr old son sat with me and even commented on how simple it was. The differences that the kit makes are excellent and immediately noticeable.

If you wanna spend even more on it then get 1 of the specialist tuners to tune it for you. They're superb at what they do and know how to get the very best out of these rifles :thumbs:
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#13 johnwhit

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:21 am

After a break of nearly 30 yrs I bought a HW77K, and fitted a V-Mach kit myself, very straightforward with a few basic tools, plenty of info on the Weihrauch Owners Club site, I'll post some links with photos if you'd like. You won't regret it, great rifles the HW's, IMHO it would be a false economy to buy a cheaper rifle and tune it only to sell it on and buy a Weihrauch.

ATB,

John

Edited by johnwhit, 17 October 2012 - 10:25 am.


#14 pianoman

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:00 pm

I know Simon, but if you are starting out ont he tuning thing and intending to do your own, as I read the OP post, what would you rather bog up first? 120 or 350?

If you stuff up tuning the XS19 at least you are not several hundred quid down the hole. This is the first go, so let's not run before we can walk, after all how many of us passed a driving test then got a Ferrari as a first car? Start small and affordable, then get the HW!

The HW will benefit from a tune, but the improvements may not be as noticeable to a novice as the SMK will be!


I bet you they will!!

Mike, in fairness to your recommendations, I went over to Red Beck yesterday and had a test shot with a Hatsan Dominator underlever they have in. It looks great, with walnut, adjustable cheekpiece, ambidextrous stock; it reminds me of the US M-14 rifle; one of my all-time favourites -minus magazine of course. I though it looked so great and handled well, I was seriously interested in buying it, if only it shot as good as it looked and handled.

I took it on their test range and....Oh no! Nearly 300 and is designed to match the TX200? Not by a long chalk! Tuning it would just about make it usably comfortable at ranges up to 35 metres; perhaps 40 at a stretch. But, I wouldn't trust it much further. It's not bad. A bit rough and twangy, It's just not that great either.

we are not talking about passing driving tests and buying unaffordable dream cars on first day. :blink:

And maybe the guy who began this thread knows more than he might seem to. ;)

Let's simply consider putting a pellet through a 2p disc consistently at 25 to 50 yards as a shooting accuracy goal most shooters are striving for.

To accomplish that goal, you can either spend 150-200 and struggle and sweat it out with a Hatsan/SMK whatever. Or,,,we spend 400+ and buy a rifle that can achieve that target without breaking a sweat and let our novice work up with skill gleaned from practice with said rifle; rather than struggle on pointlessly and agonisingly with a pile of Chinese-built shit before the penny literally drops and he buys an HW77 that can really do the business straight out the box! But not before his cautious working up period has cost him around 600 quid total outlay. And he hasn't bought a decent scope yet!

Let's put it this way. I've seen this happen time out of number with beginners.
You give a rank novice the best that SMK can offer, for around 200 quid. Tune it with whatever you can and he will be very impressed that he can actually hit a tin can or put a hole through a 6-inch paper target at 20+ yards.

Then, give him an untuned, out the box, just-as-it-comes HW77 or 97, or HW80 or HW95 say.

He'll freak when he sees two, three, four..ten twenty rounds going through the dot at 35-metres and goes out even further. That's the difference here. You either buy what gets the job done, or you struggle along pretending you have a great gun when, actually, but sorry, you don't.

There really isn't much in the way of components that make up a spring rifle. Weihrauch, in my view and experience make superior quality rifles from superior quality components so, tuning one is a process of refining a seriously nice rifle into a beautiful one. It's easy work to carry out with the right tools, equipment and know how and very hard to stuff one up. You would have to bugger one up deliberately to stuff it up, Mike.

No hard feelings here mate but, I'm genuinely baffled why, having bought just about every spring and PCP air rifle under God's sky this last few years, you still recommend unfeasable and utter shit, crap and bollocks from Hatsan SMK et al to everyone who just want's to know what a great rifle for tuning is!

Simon Pianoman

Edited by pianoman, 17 October 2012 - 03:26 pm.

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#15 secretagentmole

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:42 pm

It is simple Simon, for a first off the cost of the project involved, an HW will cost far more, far far more, this is someone who has never attempted this before, I am recommending a project rifle that can be picked up secondhand for peanuts, uses tuning kits that do not cost the earth, so that if they score and damage the piston, stuff the trigger mechanism, bend every single spring during strip down, they have not lost a fortune!

I am not saying that the SMK will outshoot the HW, even after tuning, I am suggesting that for a starting point you will feel less aggrieved bogging up £70 than you will bogging up £350 (about 5 times less upset by my maths). It is a practice piece! Hell if he could get a B2 for a fiver I would recommend that, as an instructional tool, not a shooting one! Learning about strip downs on a cheaper rifle is going to be less worrying and more rewarding than trying to remember where you put that small but bloody vital pin from your HW95....

It is about simple maths, for a First Time project I would recommend monkeying about with something low cost, that will not ruin you financially and be discouraging. It is an apprentice piece not a blasted masterpiece! I stated they could be improved exponentially, which is true (the damned trigger on the 19 is awful), It will be a gun for practising working on and learning, It could then be sold and the money invested in a good rifle to tune!


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