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I don't come on here very often, depsite 45 years of lurcher running behind me, and plenty of coursing experience in this country, UAE, USA, Portugal, India and Pakistan. But what the hell do I know? The sheer basic ignorance that is expounded is unbelievable sometimes.




........BYE THEN....SEE YOU IN ANOTHER 5 YRS WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY !
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It's always good to know. . . . . that you don't need to breed worker x worker to get good dogs. We can all sleep easy now. . . . .

I don't mean in general mate, that would be crazy! But when the cross is that specific, do you need a top coursing greyhound x a gamedog pitbull to produce a fox killer??

I'm not big fan of Hancock, but it really depends what your expectations are for a running dog

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It's always good to know. . . . . that you don't need to breed worker x worker to get good dogs. We can all sleep easy now. . . . .

 

No, you don't. You need good base lines, but breeding lurcher to lurcher, however good they work, is a lottery. It always has been and always willbe UNLESS you know the exact lines of each - but that is more selective breeding than just worker to worker.

 

I despair sometimes of the general ignorance that is shown. I have bred my strain true for over 30 years. Not as a mney maker,just to replace my own dog when needed. If people understood breeding and genetics you wouldnt see so much claptrap as that written in the previous 14 pages. There are some good posts, but you can spot the "I am a brilliant lurcherman" posts a mile off. These then get backed up by the "how many rabbits has your dog caught then?" argument.....In my case, THREE, because we don't have any - not had a rabbit on the farm for 15 or more years. Nor the surrounding 5000 acres either - where they went I have no idea, the badgers dug a lot out, the rest just died off. We have got a few hares though - but the "brilliant lurchermen" and their lamps killed 5 the other night - how do I know? Because they left them thrown in a heap in the wood - what sort of people would do that? Perfectly good meat, just thrown away?

 

I don't come on here very often, depsite 45 years of lurcher running behind me, and plenty of coursing experience in this country, UAE, USA, Portugal, India and Pakistan. But what the hell do I know? The sheer basic ignorance that is expounded is unbelievable sometimes.

 

My current young dog

 

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His mother

 

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Both together on a walk out

 

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Is that bitch one of them norfolk/smithfield lurcher/tumbler thingys? lol, Nice :thumbs:

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Reading through this, it is obvious many "lurcher lads" haven't a clue about genetics or how to go about breeding!

 

You do not get the same thing if you cross two crosses. UNLESS you back cross, or like David does, line breed. Then you get repeatable results - but taking two of those pups and breeding them, you will NOT get the same thing out. The litters will be mixed and you might get one or two of the desired pups in the litter, but not right through.

 

David starts with a working collie BITCH and mates it to a greyhound dog. THAT is a colliexgreyhound. If you use a colie dog and put it on a greyhound bitch YOU DO NOT GET THE SAME THING. That is a Geyhound x collie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? This is where those who do not understand genetics start to get found out!

 

CxG will produce a much stronger, racier pup. If you like, just for the sake of explanation, a Collie bitch x greyhound dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 greyhound.

 

A greyhound bitch x collie dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 collie. This is because the SIRE has greater influence over the dam. Start with a good dam and put a better sire on to improve the breed - you pick your best cows to breed from, but you put an even better bull on them. It is no different with dogs.

 

If you take the first cross C x G and mate them together you can get some nearly pure greyhound, some nearly pure collie and some c x g - I don't know how to draw on a computer, but because you 50% of each on both sides, you can get 100% of one or other.

 

INSTINCT. Collies have the herding instinct in their genes. Even a town bred collie, if taken into the countryside from 6 weeks and reared as a farm dog will grow up like a farm dog. The instinct is deep in the psyche, all it needs to bring it to the surface is ENVIRONMENT. Environment and training.

 

A good lurcher is made, not bred. It is down to the quality of the trainer/owner/handler how well a lurcher turns out. A GOOD DOG MAN will make something of a pretty poor pup. A POOR DOG MAN can ruin the best of blood.

I must have gone somewhere different then because all the bitches I saw there were greyhounds, and the gallery of stud dogs are all collies :hmm::laugh:

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Reading through this, it is obvious many "lurcher lads" haven't a clue about genetics or how to go about breeding!

 

You do not get the same thing if you cross two crosses. UNLESS you back cross, or like David does, line breed. Then you get repeatable results - but taking two of those pups and breeding them, you will NOT get the same thing out. The litters will be mixed and you might get one or two of the desired pups in the litter, but not right through.

 

David starts with a working collie BITCH and mates it to a greyhound dog. THAT is a colliexgreyhound. If you use a colie dog and put it on a greyhound bitch YOU DO NOT GET THE SAME THING. That is a Geyhound x collie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? This is where those who do not understand genetics start to get found out!

 

CxG will produce a much stronger, racier pup. If you like, just for the sake of explanation, a Collie bitch x greyhound dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 greyhound.

 

A greyhound bitch x collie dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 collie. This is because the SIRE has greater influence over the dam. Start with a good dam and put a better sire on to improve the breed - you pick your best cows to breed from, but you put an even better bull on them. It is no different with dogs.

 

If you take the first cross C x G and mate them together you can get some nearly pure greyhound, some nearly pure collie and some c x g - I don't know how to draw on a computer, but because you 50% of each on both sides, you can get 100% of one or other.

 

INSTINCT. Collies have the herding instinct in their genes. Even a town bred collie, if taken into the countryside from 6 weeks and reared as a farm dog will grow up like a farm dog. The instinct is deep in the psyche, all it needs to bring it to the surface is ENVIRONMENT. Environment and training.

 

A good lurcher is made, not bred. It is down to the quality of the trainer/owner/handler how well a lurcher turns out. A GOOD DOG MAN will make something of a pretty poor pup. A POOR DOG MAN can ruin the best of blood.

I must have gone somewhere different then because all the bitches I saw there were greyhounds, and the gallery of stud dogs are all collies :hmm::laugh:

 

In which case he has changed his breeding - 30 years ago it was the other way around. I can understand his reasoning though - you can get a bitch greyhound in season for free - a collie dog costs very little too.

 

Shame, he used to breed properly.. I wasn't keen on his introduction of Beardies, about 1986 I think it was when he started dablling in those crosses - a lot of wastage in those litters.

 

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Hancocks early stud dogs 1980s-Richard jones beardie/border put to greyhounds.Taffy out of richard jones put to greyhounds. remus bearded collie put to greyhounds. jake out of remus put to greyhounds. monty out of richard jones put to greyhounds. chuckles border collie/grey put to greyhounds.

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I worked a few of the early stuff "HANCOCK" produced with mixed results,most were put to decent "westmeade" greyhounds that had been run untill retirement,some had a decent track record over 6 bends and were decent dogs in their own right.The dogs being produced now need to be tested in the right hands,he has 3 new stud dogs and my lad bought one against my better judgement off "WOODIES" first litter,I promised David this bitch will see plenty of work and we would keep him informed of her progress,after reading through all the posts on here I think it may help to put some pics up of the day we were there,it is a puppy farm run purely as a business and you get exactly what it says on the tin,most go as pets and do not see a lot of work,he has had a few success stories recently with a few pups going on to win obedience trials and one has won a lot of gundog competitions,so much so that the rules have been tightened up to state the types of dog allowed to enter,these pics are for those that have commented without ever going there,make your own mind up,WM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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