paulus 26 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Why go to Hancock rather than getting a pup out of two Hancock dogs that have been worked ..... Then you get the best I both worlds..... A dog bred the way you want from two tested parents..........Do you think there is a difference between getting a Dog bred from 2 working Hancock dogs and a pup from Hancock out of a lining that previously produced workers? Hancock produces working dogs. Fact. Does the fact that the parents are not tested really matter? Yes I do. Worker ..... Is a broad term. If the dogs he produces are shit hot.... And make the grade .....there will be litters out of them..... Each gen should improve on the rest in theory. P.s putting 'fact' after something doesn't make it true. Hancock breeds a f**k ton of dogs and some good men produce working dogs out of some of those pups..... Now.... How come those dogs are not bred from rather than a return to the lottery. And I'm not anti Hancock dogs as I fancy I might stick one over my bitch in years to come..... they are bred from and have produced some handy pups, Quote Link to post
tjones3862 3,423 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) Why go to Hancock rather than getting a pup out of two Hancock dogs that have been worked ..... Then you get the best I both worlds..... A dog bred the way you want from two tested parents.......... Do you think there is a difference between getting a Dog bred from 2 working Hancock dogs and a pup from Hancock out of a lining that previously produced workers? Hancock produces working dogs. Fact. Does the fact that the parents are not tested really matter? A UP GAZ,,,, ALL HANCOCK DOGS WORK, THAT HIS FACT,,,THERE'S NOT MANY LURCHERS THAT DON'T,,,FACT,,,,, BUT THERE HIS WORKING AND WORKING,,,,, IDEATION HAS HIT ,,,,,HIT ON THE HEAD,,, YOU WOULD BE BETTER GETTING A HANCOCK, DOGS OFF 2 WELL PROVEN HANK DOGS,,,, THEN THEY MITE BE A DOG NOT TO BE KNOCKED,,, THIS HIS WERE D HANCOCK HIS GOING WRONG,,,,,,IN MY EYES,,, Edited October 20, 2013 by Bosun11 1 Quote Link to post
Chid 6,374 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 When does a lurcher stop becoming a Hancock ? I have 2 lurchers here both bred down from the same Hancock bitch are they still Hancocks ???? They will be getting bred together in the future had this plan for a long time , just got to wait till one's old enough and hope the other don't turn out to be to old Quote Link to post
jonnygray 139 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ive had Hancocks in the past and to be fair ive not a bad word to say about them, and if the man can earn a living breeding healthy well looked after pups then good luck to him. On the other hand im getting a pup from Magpie next week from his beardie x grey line and I cant wait!! Genuine worker to worker all the way through bred for a job from dogs that are doing the job. Each to their own and enjoy your curs!!! 1 Quote Link to post
BORDERSCOT 3,816 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Why go to Hancock rather than getting a pup out of two Hancock dogs that have been worked ..... Then you get the best I both worlds..... A dog bred the way you want from two tested parents.......... Do you think there is a difference between getting a Dog bred from 2 working Hancock dogs and a pup from Hancock out of a lining that previously produced workers? Hancock produces working dogs. Fact. Does the fact that the parents are not tested really matter? A UP GAZ,,,, ALL HANCOCK DOGS WORK, THAT HIS FACT,,,THERES NOT MANY LURCHERS THAT DONT,,,FACT,,,,, BUT THERE HIS WORKING AND WORKING,,,,, IDEAATION HAS HIT ,,,,,HIT ON THE HEAD,,, YOU WUD BE BETTER GETTING A HANCOCK, DOGS OFF 2 WELL PROVERN HANK DOGS,,,, THEN THEY MITE BE A DOG NOT TO BE KNOCKED,,, THIS HIS WERE D HANCOCK HIS GOING WRONG,,,,,,IN MY EYES,,, Ya gotta laugh at that though eh......ffs........ The man's been in business for 30 years.....no small achievement in its own right.....he's been doing it his way for 30 years.....but doing it wrong eh.... 4 Quote Link to post
Flipper_Al 1,012 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 He must be doing something right then.... Try finding Beardie crosses, there like rhs 1 Quote Link to post
alrounder 1 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I have one.and im happy with her good alrounder. Like they say what you put in you get out. Quote Link to post
Acuspell 329 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) Reading through this, it is obvious many "lurcher lads" haven't a clue about genetics or how to go about breeding! You do not get the same thing if you cross two crosses. UNLESS you back cross, or like David does, line breed. Then you get repeatable results - but taking two of those pups and breeding them, you will NOT get the same thing out. The litters will be mixed and you might get one or two of the desired pups in the litter, but not right through. David starts with a working collie BITCH and mates it to a greyhound dog. THAT is a colliexgreyhound. If you use a colie dog and put it on a greyhound bitch YOU DO NOT GET THE SAME THING. That is a Geyhound x collie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? This is where those who do not understand genetics start to get found out! CxG will produce a much stronger, racier pup. If you like, just for the sake of explanation, a Collie bitch x greyhound dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 greyhound. A greyhound bitch x collie dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 collie. This is because the SIRE has greater influence over the dam. Start with a good dam and put a better sire on to improve the breed - you pick your best cows to breed from, but you put an even better bull on them. It is no different with dogs. If you take the first cross C x G and mate them together you can get some nearly pure greyhound, some nearly pure collie and some c x g - I don't know how to draw on a computer, but because you 50% of each on both sides, you can get 100% of one or other. INSTINCT. Collies have the herding instinct in their genes. Even a town bred collie, if taken into the countryside from 6 weeks and reared as a farm dog will grow up like a farm dog. The instinct is deep in the psyche, all it needs to bring it to the surface is ENVIRONMENT. Environment and training. A good lurcher is made, not bred. It is down to the quality of the trainer/owner/handler how well a lurcher turns out. A GOOD DOG MAN will make something of a pretty poor pup. A POOR DOG MAN can ruin the best of blood. Edited October 20, 2013 by Acuspell 2 Quote Link to post
paulus 26 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Reading through this, it is obvious many "lurcher lads" haven't a clue about genetics or how to go about breeding! You do not get the same thing if you cross two crosses. UNLESS you back cross, or like David does, line breed. Then you get repeatable results - but taking two of those pups and breeding them, you will NOT get the same thing out. The litters will be mixed and you might get one or two of the desired pups in the litter, but not right through. David starts with a working collie BITCH and mates it to a greyhound dog. THAT is a colliexgreyhound. If you use a colie dog and put it on a greyhound bitch YOU DO NOT GET THE SAME THING. That is a Geyhound x collie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? This is where those who do not understand genetics start to get found out! CxG will produce a much stronger, racier pup. If you like, just for the sake of explanation, a Collie bitch x greyhound dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 greyhound. A greyhound bitch x collie dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 collie. This is because the SIRE has greater influence over the dam. Start with a good dam and put a better sire on to improve the breed - you pick your best cows to breed from, but you put an even better bull on them. It is no different with dogs. If you take the first cross C x G and mate them together you can get some nearly pure greyhound, some nearly pure collie and some c x g - I don't know how to draw on a computer, but because you 50% of each on both sides, you can get 100% of one or other. INSTINCT. Collies have the herding instinct in their genes. Even a town bred collie, if taken into the countryside from 6 weeks and reared as a farm dog will grow up like a farm dog. The instinct is deep in the psyche, all it needs to bring it to the surface is ENVIRONMENT. Environment and training. A good lurcher is made, not bred. It is down to the quality of the trainer/owner/handler how well a lurcher turns out. A GOOD DOG MAN will make something of a pretty poor pup. A POOR DOG MAN can ruin the best of blood. he also uses collie dogs to greyhound bitches Mr Smith and Mr Jones are 2 border/beardie stud dogs of his i can name he has sold numerous pups that both of these have sired http://www.hancocklurchers.co.uk/Stud-Gallery.aspx Quote Link to post
Chid 6,374 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Since when did Hancock start line breeding ?? Quote Link to post
paulus 26 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Since when did Hancock start line breeding ?? there lined up down his yard Quote Link to post
darbo 4,774 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 correct me if im wrong but when has hancock used a greyhound dog over a collie bitch? 2 Quote Link to post
Accip74 7,112 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Reading through this, it is obvious many "lurcher lads" haven't a clue about genetics or how to go about breeding! You do not get the same thing if you cross two crosses. UNLESS you back cross, or like David does, line breed. Then you get repeatable results - but taking two of those pups and breeding them, you will NOT get the same thing out. The litters will be mixed and you might get one or two of the desired pups in the litter, but not right through. David starts with a working collie BITCH and mates it to a greyhound dog. THAT is a colliexgreyhound. If you use a colie dog and put it on a greyhound bitch YOU DO NOT GET THE SAME THING. That is a Geyhound x collie. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? This is where those who do not understand genetics start to get found out! CxG will produce a much stronger, racier pup. If you like, just for the sake of explanation, a Collie bitch x greyhound dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 greyhound. A greyhound bitch x collie dog will produce a pup more like a 5/8 collie. This is because the SIRE has greater influence over the dam. Start with a good dam and put a better sire on to improve the breed - you pick your best cows to breed from, but you put an even better bull on them. It is no different with dogs. If you take the first cross C x G and mate them together you can get some nearly pure greyhound, some nearly pure collie and some c x g - I don't know how to draw on a computer, but because you 50% of each on both sides, you can get 100% of one or other. INSTINCT. Collies have the herding instinct in their genes. Even a town bred collie, if taken into the countryside from 6 weeks and reared as a farm dog will grow up like a farm dog. The instinct is deep in the psyche, all it needs to bring it to the surface is ENVIRONMENT. Environment and training. A good lurcher is made, not bred. It is down to the quality of the trainer/owner/handler how well a lurcher turns out. A GOOD DOG MAN will make something of a pretty poor pup. A POOR DOG MAN can ruin the best of blood. This is so true, the man is only putting together components to produce a machine that does a job, if you can't do anything with a 3/4 greyhound collie taken from 8 weeks then look at your own handling skills, of course the fact that it's a dog factory is an ethical issue, but I don't think it matters there not produced from workers 2 Quote Link to post
Ideation 8,216 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 It's always good to know. . . . . that you don't need to breed worker x worker to get good dogs. We can all sleep easy now. . . . . 3 Quote Link to post
Acuspell 329 Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) It's always good to know. . . . . that you don't need to breed worker x worker to get good dogs. We can all sleep easy now. . . . . No, you don't. You need good base lines, but breeding lurcher to lurcher, however good they work, is a lottery. It always has been and always willbe UNLESS you know the exact lines of each - but that is more selective breeding than just worker to worker. I despair sometimes of the general ignorance that is shown. I have bred my strain true for over 30 years. Not as a mney maker,just to replace my own dog when needed. If people understood breeding and genetics you wouldnt see so much claptrap as that written in the previous 14 pages. There are some good posts, but you can spot the "I am a brilliant lurcherman" posts a mile off. These then get backed up by the "how many rabbits has your dog caught then?" argument.....In my case, THREE, because we don't have any - not had a rabbit on the farm for 15 or more years. Nor the surrounding 5000 acres either - where they went I have no idea, the badgers dug a lot out, the rest just died off. We have got a few hares though - but the "brilliant lurchermen" and their lamps killed 5 the other night - how do I know? Because they left them thrown in a heap in the wood - what sort of people would do that? Perfectly good meat, just thrown away? I don't come on here very often, depsite 45 years of lurcher running behind me, and plenty of coursing experience in this country, UAE, USA, Portugal, India and Pakistan. But what the hell do I know? The sheer basic ignorance that is expounded is unbelievable sometimes. My current young dog His mother Both together on a walk out Edited October 20, 2013 by Acuspell 3 Quote Link to post
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