Electrolyte drinks

[Moll. 1,769]

At least 4 people on here saying recharge works from hands on eperience.

Five

[paulus 26]

since the problem i had with one of my dogs, ive been doing quite a bit of reading on the subject and do believe products like recharge, ect do have a place in mild forms of cramps , acidosis. but i will add in the dog suffers rhabdomyolysis theres little that can be done to stop it, it has to run its course. most isotonic energy drinks contain the same ingredients as recharge. Maltodextrin is the magic ingredient

 

Is rhabdomyolysis not caused because a dog is not at full fitness when run hard though Paul, you would/should not run a dog to the degree Moscow and Millet are one about when not fit. Their examples are of dogs in peak fitness being worked hard

no moll its not fitness, if you run an unfit dog the same natural self preservation modes will still kick in, cramps, exhaustion ect as you would get with a fit dog only sooner, the type of dog ive seen rhabdomolysis in and talked about with the greyhound trainers all exhibit the same trait, the greyhound men call it excitable and the ones ive seen show extreme levels of prey drive, this drive is so high the dog seems to ignores all the things its body is telling it. to the point that it will run itself to death rather than to the point of exhaustion. this same excitability,prey drive shows itself in heavily bull influenced crosses aswell in the form of gassing out. as they are bred for other traits rather than speed. some of these dogs have a tendency to hyperventilate through sheer excitment/prey drive. this hyperventilating leads to passing out and ulitimatly fits

[Millet 4,497]

I have seen that once before Paul with a mate's dog...it was a big thing around 28in and around 70lb..it ran a hare unfit and the weight/muscle just dropped of it's back..it looked terrible and took monthes to muscle back up..but it was never the same after that..the muscle did come back but the back was not as wide as it used to be..

[Giro 2,648]

Its all intresting stuff....

 

Seen some excited dogs crying and bouncing about in vans and then when running. They were million miles an hour on every run and every retrieve.

 

They seem to burn out faster than a calmer and steadier charge..

 

That getting excited or stressed has got expel some valuable energy ???

 

My white bitch is funny put her in the van and she looks like she had finished before she starts lol, just gans to kip.

[paulus 26]

I have seen that once before Paul with a mate's dog...it was a big thing around 28in and around 70lb..it ran a hare unfit and the weight/muscle just dropped of it's back..it looked terrible and took monthes to muscle back up..but it was never the same after that..the muscle did come back but the back was not as wide as it used to be..

mines come back the same as before, he was probably only 90% fit when it happened but he wasnt unfit at all. the thing is he was fine on the day even managing to catch the rabbit it was 24hrs later that the problems started

[paulus 26]

Its all intresting stuff....

 

Seen some excited dogs crying and bouncing about in vans and then when running. They were million miles an hour on every run and every retrieve.

 

They seem to burn out faster than a calmer and steadier charge..

 

That getting excited or stressed has got expel some valuable energy ???

 

My white bitch is funny put her in the van and she looks like she had finished before she starts lol, just gans to kip.

mine are very quiet in the van but one is just an absolute nutter when onto something. its a very fine line because what i call a fault im hopeing to rectify with the next litter also puts more stuff in the bag than any other dog ive owned. a very expolsive sort of dog.

[Giro 2,648]

Whats your breeding plan fella??

 

I am definetly gonna try this Recharge..

[paulus 26]

Whats your breeding plan fella??

 

I am definetly gonna try this Recharge..

back to a half x collie or back to his sires sister taking out some of the stuff i added with his dam

[budgie123 163]

As Paulus will be aware after the research he has done following problems with his dog there is a lot of talk about electrolytes on the greyhound data forum and there seems to be an informed opinion among very knowledgeable people on the site that certain products can impact on the well being of a dog after hard work.

Certain electrolyte solutions contain subdstances containing citrates which are acidic and giving them to a dog which has worked hard and its system is possibly in an acidic state due to latic acid is compremised even further with the electrolite solution which is acidic.The main issue seems to be substances containing citrate.

2 electrolite supliments which do not contain citrate are liquid life aid and replenolyte which have both been mentioned on the greyhound data forum.

I have used recharge for many years with to my knowledge no detrimental effects.

 

Body salts when dissolved in water become charged particles called ions or electrolytes.For example,common table salt sodium chloride(NaCl) is present in the greyhounds body but not as a salt.The salt components become disassociated in water with the sodium becoming a possitively charged particle designated as Na+ion and the chloride becoming a negatively charged particle designated as Cl-.Positive ions are called cations and negative ions are called anions.The major electrolytes or ions in the body are sodium(na+) potasium(k+) chloride(Cl-) bicarbonate(HCO3=) phosphate(PO4=) calcium(Ca++) and magnesium(Mg++) with the plusses and minuses indicating the type and amount of electrical charge of the ion.

 

To understand one of the major functions of the electrolite one has to stop and learn about what is hapening in the basic unit of the body the cell.There is an unequal amount of electrolytes inside the cell as compared with outside the cell in the extracellular fluid which includes plasma.Most importantly there is a high concentration of potassium and low concentration of sodium inside the cell.In contrast outside the cell there is a high concentration of sodium and low concentration of potassium.It is the concentration of these 2 electrolytes that primarily determine how a cell works.The cells have pores or small holes in the membranes that will let potassium in and out but wont let sodium in very easily.In fact there is a metabolic pump that kicks out any extra sodium that does manage to gat into a cell through the pores.The end result of all this unequal distribution of ions is that the membrane of the cell becomes charged like a battery with negative charge on the inside and a positive charge on the outside of the cell membrane.

The transmition of these electrical charges in muscles is what produces motion.

The body has a number of mechanisms for keeping the electrolites and protiens in the proper concentrations inside and outside the cells.

The most important being the kidney which regulates the excretion or the retention of electrolytes or ions in the extracellular fluid.When dietry or body levels of electrolytes are low the kidney works to retain or save electrolytes.In converse if excess is is present the kidney works to eliminate this in the urine.

The Kidney can be fooled. For example when a dog runs a hard race the muscle cells leak out more potassium into extra cellular fluid and plasma.The kidney sees this extra potassium in the blood fluids it is filtering and eliminates it in the urine.Thus a recovering and resting greyhound will need to replenish that potassium back into the cells from potassium in the diet.This is one reason it is recommended that racing greyhounds be given a potassium supplement in their feed on a daily basis.

 

The information above is taken from a book on greyhounds and i thaught members may find it helpfull to know what electrolytes do.

 

With regard dogs which are bad travellers and pant excessively.

Bicarbonate is in balance or equilibrium with carbon dioxide.With panting the carbon dioxide levels in the blood decrease and the pH increases(respiratory alkalosis).This sets in motion kidney responses which effectively eliminates some of the bicarbonate.A greyhound that goes into a race under this condition will have less bufferring capacity to the lactic acid that is produced with muscular exercise in the run and will be more prone to exertional rhabdomyolisis or metabolic acidosis.

 

My friend has a dog which had been one of the worst travellers i have ever seen loosing dramatic amounts of fluid when travelling frothing at the mouth also at times vomiting.Someting i thaught it would never get over. A friend who is a security man and dog trainer adviced him to let him have the dog for a week and he would take it everywhere with him in his van.He also fed the dog in the van.To my amazment this has completly resolved the problem.

 

I will seek further advice from a greyhound vet with regard the issue of citrates in some electrolite solutions and inform you of his response.

[paulus 26]

very good post mate

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

....

 

At the end of the day electrolytes are just a drink of water with a little added salt, if people really believe it to be some wonder medicine that cure blindness, stop rhabdomyolisis and brings about a miraculous recovery to what are probably hyperthermic dogs then all I can say is some people are extremely credulous and I've got some magic fairy dust that cures all ills, £50 a tub..

 

I understand what you're saying about over doing the salt levels in a dogs body, It makes perfect sense to me what you're saying, and before I try anything to do with electrolytes I think I'll try glucose water, as you have suggested that Glucose is OK but too much salt in a dogs body is bad. I understand your point and value your opinion, but saving a dog from rhabdomyolisis wasn't the question I originally asked about. The question is do electrolyte drinks benefit a dog that is being worked hard? No ones claiming electrolytes to be the saviour of all things bad in running dogs mate.

 

Many People have obviously seen the benefits a supplement like Recharge has for a dog thats being worked hard, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the salts that recharge contains? Maybe it does? The thing is I doubt there would be people claiming there are benefits if it were untrue (unless they're selling a load of it of course).

[budgie123 163]

I have asked a greyhound vet about benefits of electrolytes and about the issue of some containing citrates below his his reply.

 

I use a lot of Replenolyte and find it good. Some of the most recent research casts doubt on the need for electrolytes at all in dogs! That said I think the glucose is definitely beneficial.

 

Sorry if my last post went of track to your original question.

[redcharge 378]

I like this stuff http://wynnstayonline.co.uk/norbrook-liquid-life-aid-960ml.html to be honest I think it's more or less the same as Recharge only in a different bottle and half the price.

[Millet 4,497]

Some lurcher's blow themself's out pretty quick which can be seen.. some will soildier on till the death if let be.. recharge will be used by me from experience no matter what i read on here,,

[reddawn 2,173]

how much glucose we talking in say a litre of water???