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#91 kenny14

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:05 pm




Inspection of traps
Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a 200 fine (level 1).
See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.


Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.
I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.


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I have been involved in trapping and pest control for over 40 years, run my own pest control company, and train delegates in all aspects of Rural pest control including legislation. Unlike you, i am open with my credentials and don't go hiding behind assumptions. I am well aware of the law regarding traps and trapping and abide by them at all times I have probably forgotten more about setting traps than you will ever know, and unfortunately the way things are going i can well see the day when i will have to demonstrate my ability to some numpty like yourself to be able to continue doing something you have very little knowledge of.

involved in trapping and pest control for over 40 years - You must be around the same age as me then. Your writings and attitude had led me to assume (my only assumption by the way) you were in your mid to late teens.

train delegates in all aspects of Rural pest control including legislation - Something else we have in common, though probably with very differing general outcomes.

forgotten more about setting traps than you will ever know - You may have forgotten a lot of things, but I doubt you very much on that point. And I won't claim that I'm better than you, as I'm not sure whether or not I've seen your work first hand, and I prefer to base all of my judgements and opinions on personal experience .

open with my credentials and don't go hiding behind assumptions - My credentials are there for those that matter. My professional life brings me into contact with many people who strongly disagree with my partaking in and working to protect legal fieldsports and those who partake in them, both professional and amateur. Some of these individuals and groups would go to any lengths to further their 'cause'. There are also those 'fellow sportsmen', some like yourself who try to discredit and knock others (maybe you simply feel inferior in some way?), and those with no regard for either the law nor animal welfare, I've no time for those sorts, and work as strongly against them as I do to protect the interests of the true sportsmen. Though I have always been willing to personally stand my ground with anyone, I have family so I prefer to choose who has the power to learn certain details about me.

Now goodbye, and please could you put your claimed interests in trapping/pest control to better use?

#92 kenny14

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:08 pm




Inspection of traps
Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a 200 fine (level 1).
See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.


Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.
I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.




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Ken , i think you are too boastful and immature to work alongside people in the legal profession unless, of course, it's to nip shop, open doors and make the tea

Are you referring to me? If so I see it took you a very long time to think of that witty gem! :lol:

#93 micky

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:19 pm





Inspection of traps
Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a 200 fine (level 1).
See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.


Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.
I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.





http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Ken , i think you are too boastful and immature to work alongside people in the legal profession unless, of course, it's to nip shop, open doors and make the tea

Are you referring to me? If so I see it took you a very long time to think of that witty gem! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Yes Napoleon I am. Now run along and put the kettle on but don't burn your ears this time!

#94 Rolfe

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:09 pm

Micky, just let the arrogant numpty play in his sad world of self importance, he obviously thinks he is doing us all some sort of big favour........I think we all can spot the diffence between a pen pusher and a genuinely skilled trapper when they offer "EXPERT" advice....!

#95 heritage

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:28 pm

I'm no expert trapper, more of an enthusiastic amateur and that's why I follow these trapping posts....I hope to learn a thing or two from the more experienced amongst us but to be honest this thread has achieved nothing.....2 sides both stubbornly refusing to "give way"...we all know the very basics and I personally adopt a basic approach ensuring I'm always on the right side of the law...so isnt it about time this debate ceased..? Let's get back to the helpful, interesting posts that benefit those that read them with avid intrest........................
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#96 micky

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:27 pm

I'm no expert trapper, more of an enthusiastic amateur and that's why I follow these trapping posts....I hope to learn a thing or two from the more experienced amongst us but to be honest this thread has achieved nothing.....2 sides both stubbornly refusing to "give way"...we all know the very basics and I personally adopt a basic approach ensuring I'm always on the right side of the law...so isnt it about time this debate ceased..? Let's get back to the helpful, interesting posts that benefit those that read them with avid intrest........................

traps are being set heritage , and it looks like the lunatic is taking the bait

#97 kenny14

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:08 pm


I'm no expert trapper, more of an enthusiastic amateur and that's why I follow these trapping posts....I hope to learn a thing or two from the more experienced amongst us but to be honest this thread has achieved nothing.....2 sides both stubbornly refusing to "give way"...we all know the very basics and I personally adopt a basic approach ensuring I'm always on the right side of the law...so isnt it about time this debate ceased..? Let's get back to the helpful, interesting posts that benefit those that read them with avid intrest........................

traps are being set heritage , and it looks like the lunatic is taking the bait

Very sensible words there from heritage :thumbs: .

You though 'mickey' are about as funny as cancer, and not unlike a Midge - Very insignificant but extremely irritating, so please do yourself a favour and just shut up.
And to certain other professionals who've 'contributed' lots to this thread, your services must really be in big demand judging by the fact you're on here almost 24/7 :hmm:......

I'm keeping to what I said about having no more input on the legalities, as actual fact and outcomes will speak for themselves. I do wonder though, if you rowlf can also put your legal arguments aside, and whether you agree with me on one thing that I feel has again been highlighted on this thread - The fact that some people who claim to be (and sadly most probably are) trappers, are doing as much if not more harm to the profession as the anti trap campaigners.
By this I mean that why do some people keep claiming that a Fenn trap is a complex device that unless coupled with a critically dimensioned tunnel or chamber will not catch, or worse will consistently catch inhumanely? Is it ignorance? Naivety? Believing everything their 'idols' wrote? Or do they stand to gain something from the banning of Fenns?
The actual truth is that a Fenn trap is a very simple device that provided the operator has some knowledge of the intended quarry, and a little care and common sense is used in the setting and siting, will catch efficiently and very humanely, in a variety of locations.

I don't want any replies, agreeing or not, as I won't be visiting this thread again, (and I may have taken the Midges' bait and become his first catch) I'd just like everyone who uses Fenns, to consider the point, and think about the eventual likely consequences of 'experienced' trappers publicly claiming they're not humane.

As with all fieldsports: 'United we stand, divided we'll fall'.



#98 IanB

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:22 pm

I'd just like everyone who uses Fenns, to consider the point, and think about the eventual likely consequences of 'experienced' trappers publicly claiming they're not humane.



This is the point I'm trying to get across, some armchair hunter/trapper who goes out twice a week and sticks 10 fenn traps out max and is in cahoots with some organisational powers suddenly decides they are not humane after all these years and pushes to ban them, with there added influences... Then voila everyone has to take a course, wear a special badge or use a different trap... as I say, there are serpent's amongst us, and it does worry me.

#99 paulus

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:30 pm


I'd just like everyone who uses Fenns, to consider the point, and think about the eventual likely consequences of 'experienced' trappers publicly claiming they're not humane.



This is the point I'm trying to get across, some armchair hunter/trapper who goes out twice a week and sticks 10 fenn traps out max and is in cahoots with some organisational powers suddenly decides there not humane after all these years and pushes to ban them, with there added influences... Then voila everyone has to take a course, wear a special badge or use a different trap... as I say, there are serpent's amongst us, and it does worry me.
and somebody will make a nice big fat proffit out of it all :yes:

#100 Holdaway

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:11 pm

From what I have been told - mostly hearsay but who knows - the Fenn will not be banned, but the mark vi may lose its ticket for rabbit trapping and mink trapping. I don't believe the Fenn will be banned altogether.

I do know that all traps which have been approved (even recently) are now undergoing EUROPEAN testing (when they can all agree on the criteria). This may affect some of the traps currently approved. Some info I know for certain and as I say some is merely hearsay.

As for this thread...wow... Should we all perhaps agree that ALL traps including cage traps and snares should be checked twice a day where feasible and once a day at a minimum? Whether this is the law or not we must be seen to do more than is required (above and beyond) by the law and police ourselves more harshly than might be forced upon us. Even if it is only from a humane point of view.

H

#101 John Keswick

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:26 pm

Then voila everyone has to take a course, wear a special badge or use a different trap... as I say, there are serpent's amongst us, and it does worry me.


Its happening already in the pest control industry. There are a few who wish to be instructors and make money from courses. They will push for snaring to become licensed then every person who wants/needs to use a snare will have to attend one of these "special" snaring courses.

#102 micky

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:45 pm


I'd just like everyone who uses Fenns, to consider the point, and think about the eventual likely consequences of 'experienced' trappers publicly claiming they're not humane.



This is the point I'm trying to get across, some armchair hunter/trapper who goes out twice a week and sticks 10 fenn traps out max and is in cahoots with some organisational powers suddenly decides they are not humane after all these years and pushes to ban them, with there added influences... Then voila everyone has to take a course, wear a special badge or use a different trap... as I say, there are serpent's amongst us, and it does worry me.

Ithink you have gone slightly off topic Ian ,the point people are trying to make is ;if the trap is set correctly, it can be more humane than if its not ;' most people who use fen traps will agree with this ,Napolean does not

#103 IanB

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:51 pm



I'd just like everyone who uses Fenns, to consider the point, and think about the eventual likely consequences of 'experienced' trappers publicly claiming they're not humane.



This is the point I'm trying to get across, some armchair hunter/trapper who goes out twice a week and sticks 10 fenn traps out max and is in cahoots with some organisational powers suddenly decides they are not humane after all these years and pushes to ban them, with there added influences... Then voila everyone has to take a course, wear a special badge or use a different trap... as I say, there are serpent's amongst us, and it does worry me.

Ithink you have gone slightly off topic Ian ,the point people are trying to make is ;if the trap is set correctly, it can be more humane than if its not ;' most people who use fen traps will agree with this ,Napolean does not


Yes like any trap John, a mouse trap can catch far back a mole trap can, even when tuned, same with bodygrips... or you get non targets in them like hedgehogs, etc Your never going to eliminate everything, so everyone has a 100% perfect catch and never catches something they shouldn't ..

But yes we can all strive for this, we all should...but if only things were as easy, we have to be realistic, everything doesn't always go perfect all the time..

I stand by my statement though some do gooders are pushing this too far...it will affect many people..there is ulterior motives of that I'm sure. Its not purely for humane reasons..In the wrong hands all traps are dangerous, inhumane and will catch non target species...... so ban them all...

Same as snares will, ban them or give some idiots some daft 24hr day course and stick breakaways and stops and swivels and blah, blah, blah on them....its got to the point its pathetic.. Everything is getting restricted further and further... I mean ban guns there inhumane how many people clip birds animals like rabbits and they run off to die slowly... lets create a course, then it won't happen... yeh right, lets ban them... what else can we ban..

Right I'm going to push for mole traps to require a course, and setup a mole trap society were people must be trained before using them or they are liable to a 12month prison sentence and also the traps must be checked a minimum of twice a day... then I'll say I brought this about and stick my name all over it...

Like I say SOME people have nothing better to do, and it's starting to piss me right off...


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