fenn traps only half catching

[Rolfe 2]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

[kenny14 656]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

[paulus 26]

[kenny14 656]

 

Should've been a sign showing a tunnel being constructed on a CNC machining centre.............. 'cos we now all know that unless the tunnel dimensions are absolutely spot on you'll catch feck all

[Rolfe 2]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

[kenny14 656]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

 

No but they're not designed as live catch traps and so there is no legal requirement to check them once within every 24 hr period.

I'd advise anyone wishing to obtain free understandable clarification of this point and some of the other related laws, to email or phone the GWCT .

[Rolfe 2]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

 

No but they're not designed as live catch traps and so there is no legal requirement to check them once within every 24 hr period.

I'd advise anyone wishing to obtain free understandable clarification of this point and some of the other related laws, to email or phone the GWCT .

 

If they are on the Spring Traps Approval order then they HAVE to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period by law. Traps on the small ground vermin act applies to Mole traps and break -back traps only and do not have to be checked once during a 24 hour period. As long as the animal welfare issue IE. providing food, shelter (Larsen) and water is provided then there is NO requirement in LAW to check cage traps once during a 24 hour period.....Unless someone can show me otherwise....!

[kenny14 656]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

 

No but they're not designed as live catch traps and so there is no legal requirement to check them once within every 24 hr period.

I'd advise anyone wishing to obtain free understandable clarification of this point and some of the other related laws, to email or phone the GWCT .

 

If they are on the Spring Traps Approval order then they HAVE to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period by law. Traps on the small ground vermin act applies to Mole traps and break -back traps only and do not have to be checked once during a 24 hour period. As long as the animal welfare issue IE. providing food, shelter (Larsen) and water is provided then there is NO requirement in LAW to check cage traps once during a 24 hour period.....Unless someone can show me otherwise....!

 

As I've tried to clarify things on numerous occasions, I did recommend to give the GWCT a call.

 

I don't wish to make things any cloudier but on your statement regarding cage traps, you are technically correct. If they're empty there's no legal requirement to check them, but once an animal is trapped there is ! (The trapped animal is not a decoy, so there's no requirement to provide food, water or shelter though)........ 'So Mr. so and so, please inform the jury how you know that the animal had not been in the trap for 24 hrs or more?'.................. I think the only reply to this question that would prove Mr so and so had not broken any laws would be.. 'Because I check all my cage traps at least once within every 24 hr period.'

 

People have fallen foul of this law when members of the public have found trapped animals, taken details, photos, informed the police, RSPCA, who've then been able to prove that the operator had not checked the trap within a period of 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds.

 

I say it again, basically if there's a chance that a live animal may be in one of your traps (of any type), then it's in your best interests to check those traps once within each 24 hr period. This will greatly reduce any chance of contravening wildlife or animal welfare laws.

Edited June 5, 2012 by kenny14

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

"Trappers must be guided by their own consciences,.not merely by rules..."

 

All the best,...CHALKWARREN...

 

 

 

 

http://www.chalkwarren.co.uk

[Rolfe 2]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

 

No but they're not designed as live catch traps and so there is no legal requirement to check them once within every 24 hr period.

I'd advise anyone wishing to obtain free understandable clarification of this point and some of the other related laws, to email or phone the GWCT .

 

If they are on the Spring Traps Approval order then they HAVE to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period by law. Traps on the small ground vermin act applies to Mole traps and break -back traps only and do not have to be checked once during a 24 hour period. As long as the animal welfare issue IE. providing food, shelter (Larsen) and water is provided then there is NO requirement in LAW to check cage traps once during a 24 hour period.....Unless someone can show me otherwise....!

 

As I've tried to clarify things on numerous occasions, I did recommend to give the GWCT a call.

 

I don't wish to make things any cloudier but on your statement regarding cage traps, you are technically correct. If they're empty there's no legal requirement to check them, but once an animal is trapped there is ! (The trapped animal is not a decoy, so there's no requirement to provide food, water or shelter though)........ 'So Mr. so and so, please inform the jury how you know that the animal had not been in the trap for 24 hrs or more?'.................. I think the only reply to this question that would prove Mr so and so had not broken any laws would be.. 'Because I check all my cage traps at least once within every 24 hr period.'

 

People have fallen foul of this law when members of the public have found trapped animals, taken details, photos, informed the police, RSPCA, who've then been able to prove that the operator had not checked the trap within a period of 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds.

 

I say it again, basically if there's a chance that a live animal may be in one of your traps (of any type), then it's in your best interests to check those traps once within each 24 hr period. This will greatly reduce any chance of contravening wildlife or animal welfare laws.

 

Now we are getting somewhere........!

So you agree now that Mk 4 or 6 Fenn traps DO need to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period to comply with the law........something you were disputing?

 

Also, that by LAW cage traps do NOT need to be inspected once during a 24 hour period...something you were insisting they did....?

 

You are wrong on the third fact also........you have a duty of care to any live trapped animal in your care be it (temporary or otherwise).......therefore you have to provide food and water to comply with the Animal Welfare act 2006,

 

I make these points NOT to be clever......merely to ensure that the members of the THL receive accurate information on what is a very grey area. WE DO AGREE on something though, that common sense dictates that ALL traps, cages and snares should be checked at least once and preferably twice in a 24 hour period to avoid any misunderstandings arising, also it is ethical to do so. IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO INSPECT YOUR TRAPS DAILY THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE SETTING THEM.......PERIOD...!

[micky 3,325]

 

Should've been a sign showing a tunnel being constructed on a CNC machining centre.............. 'cos we now all know that unless the tunnel dimensions are absolutely spot on you'll catch feck all

Anyone can catch various creatures in Fenn traps, its just that some people who pay a bit more attention to detail will kill them while they are doing it.

[kenny14 656]

 

Should've been a sign showing a tunnel being constructed on a CNC machining centre.............. 'cos we now all know that unless the tunnel dimensions are absolutely spot on you'll catch feck all

Anyone can catch various creatures in Fenn traps, its just that some people who pay a bit more attention to detail will kill them while they are doing it.

Do I take it that you may be starting to pay a bit more attention then?

[micky 3,325]

 

Should've been a sign showing a tunnel being constructed on a CNC machining centre.............. 'cos we now all know that unless the tunnel dimensions are absolutely spot on you'll catch feck all

Anyone can catch various creatures in Fenn traps, its just that some people who pay a bit more attention to detail will kill them while they are doing it.

Do I take it that you may be starting to pay a bit more attention then?

not to you mate.

[kenny14 656]

The Inspection of traps comes under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 Section 10.

 

Section 10 requires that where spring traps are used, they should be inspected at reasonable intervals and at least once every day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is an offence.

 

The Animal Welfare act 2006 superseded this act, but as far as I am aware the legislation still stands, I have checked on the CPS website (Crown Prosecution Service) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/ and the law still applies, even stating that the offence carries a £2000 fine.

 

The law does not apply to small ground vermin traps IE. mole traps and break-back rat and mouse traps.

 

I would be interested if someone could show me where IN LAW it states a CAGE trap HAS to be inspected daily?

 

Obviously anyone with an ounce of sense would check cages and spring traps daily anyway, by LAW we have a duty of care to any animlas that we hold in captivity and should provide food and water whilst any animal is under our control.

 

Yes, and this includes Fenns.

 

All live catch traps must by law be inspected once within each 24 hour period, not once a day or daily, as is often quoted (checking 'once a day' could easily mean the law is being broken). This includes Larsen traps. Failure to do so could also land the offender on one or more charges under the many animal welfare laws.

 

It's refreshing to see a couple of posts relating to common sense and ethics. If only the people making the laws could use a bit of common sense and put things in plain English it'd be a simpler world.

 

Fenns being on the spring trap approval order DO NOT fall under the remit of the small ground vermin act. They are covered by the spring trap approval order and therefore have to be inspected daily or once during a 24 hour if you prefer. I was interested in the cage trap requirements......again I ask...can someone please show me WHERE by LAW (not best practice)that a cage trap has to be inspected daily ? I have already pointed out that you could fall foul of the animal welfare act by not doing so.

 

No but they're not designed as live catch traps and so there is no legal requirement to check them once within every 24 hr period.

I'd advise anyone wishing to obtain free understandable clarification of this point and some of the other related laws, to email or phone the GWCT .

 

If they are on the Spring Traps Approval order then they HAVE to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period by law. Traps on the small ground vermin act applies to Mole traps and break -back traps only and do not have to be checked once during a 24 hour period. As long as the animal welfare issue IE. providing food, shelter (Larsen) and water is provided then there is NO requirement in LAW to check cage traps once during a 24 hour period.....Unless someone can show me otherwise....!

 

As I've tried to clarify things on numerous occasions, I did recommend to give the GWCT a call.

 

I don't wish to make things any cloudier but on your statement regarding cage traps, you are technically correct. If they're empty there's no legal requirement to check them, but once an animal is trapped there is ! (The trapped animal is not a decoy, so there's no requirement to provide food, water or shelter though)........ 'So Mr. so and so, please inform the jury how you know that the animal had not been in the trap for 24 hrs or more?'.................. I think the only reply to this question that would prove Mr so and so had not broken any laws would be.. 'Because I check all my cage traps at least once within every 24 hr period.'

 

People have fallen foul of this law when members of the public have found trapped animals, taken details, photos, informed the police, RSPCA, who've then been able to prove that the operator had not checked the trap within a period of 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds.

 

I say it again, basically if there's a chance that a live animal may be in one of your traps (of any type), then it's in your best interests to check those traps once within each 24 hr period. This will greatly reduce any chance of contravening wildlife or animal welfare laws.

 

Now we are getting somewhere........!

So you agree now that Mk 4 or 6 Fenn traps DO need to be inspected at least once during a 24 hour period to comply with the law........something you were disputing?

 

Also, that by LAW cage traps do NOT need to be inspected once during a 24 hour period...something you were insisting they did....?

 

You are wrong on the third fact also........you have a duty of care to any live trapped animal in your care be it (temporary or otherwise).......therefore you have to provide food and water to comply with the Animal Welfare act 2006,

 

I make these points NOT to be clever......merely to ensure that the members of the THL receive accurate information on what is a very grey area. WE DO AGREE on something though, that common sense dictates that ALL traps, cages and snares should be checked at least once and preferably twice in a 24 hour period to avoid any misunderstandings arising, also it is ethical to do so. IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO INSPECT YOUR TRAPS DAILY THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE SETTING THEM.......PERIOD...!

 

Well it certainly seems you're trying to argue, or splitting legal hairs.

 

Firstly I haven't changed my mind at all. I was merely pointing out yet again that it is not a legal requirement for fenns to be checked at least once within every 24 hr period. BUT if an animal is caught and not killed, other animal welfare and/or cruelty laws could be contravened. Ultimately only a court of law could decide if an offence had been committed under these circumstances.

 

Secondly, are we to assume that you do not check cage traps every day? If so, then surely your only possible defence in court could be that you didn't check the trap because you didn't think it would have caught anything (the prosecution may ask if traps are usually set with the intention of catching something?). This would be very unlikely to be accepted as a valid defence. Stupidity or that you simply did not know, are no longer valid defences - Many of the wildlife related laws are now worded 'It is an offence to intentionally or recklessly.......

Anyway, we should all assume that each trap will contain a live animal, and act accordingly and legally (24 hr period law).

 

You're partially corect on the third point. You're right that we have a duty of care to any trapped animal (by law the trapped animal cannot be left unattended for more than 23 hours 59 mins 59 secs) so to ensure you are acting within the law, you should check live catch traps once within every 24 hr period. Unless of course the traps are not expected to catch (IMO this would be legally defined as acting recklessly).

You're wrong on the point that food and water needs to be provided for the trapped animal, this is not a legal requirement unless it is to be retained for use as a decoy (certain species only), or for some reason it cannot be despatched immediately, only then does it become a legal requirement to provide food and shelter etc.

 

Your final point about common sense, checking all traps snares etc. I highlighted this earlier, and expressed my personal feelings on such. And also pointed out that there is a difference between best practice guidelines, and legal requirements.

 

My views and understanding of the above points are supported by the fact that in ten years of my dealing with such matters on a regular basis (with SNCA's, police forces, animal welfare organisations, pest controllers, developers, farmers, landowners, local authorities, gamekeepers etc) not a single person who has followed my written advice and guidance has been charged with any offence under any of the wildlife related laws. And all such work of mine is required to be scrutinised thoroughly.

If this is not good enough, and anyone is still looking for further clarification, rather than argue on here I again urge them to contact one of the relevant bodies.

[kenny14 656]

 

Should've been a sign showing a tunnel being constructed on a CNC machining centre.............. 'cos we now all know that unless the tunnel dimensions are absolutely spot on you'll catch feck all

Anyone can catch various creatures in Fenn traps, its just that some people who pay a bit more attention to detail will kill them while they are doing it.

Do I take it that you may be starting to pay a bit more attention then?

not to you mate.

 

Thank f**k for that................................................................ Mate .