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#7396 Blackdog92

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:05 am

Is a cur not a collie.?


Comparing a fell cur to a collie is like comparing a saluki to a greyhound. Basically the same dog to most people but they are totally different types of dog more in the way they work and move than looks.

#7397 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:38 am

[quote name="FUJI" post="4190956" timestamp="1459706828"][quote name="bob84" post="4190947" timestamp="1459706338"]
Is a cur not a collie.?

To me it is lol Apart from the big fellas, don't think the land holds the numbers like it did 20 plus years ago, and good posts toblue, keep them coming squire

I am sure you are right about the numbers especially Hares.  Since the ban their numbers have declined rapidly.  I think there must be something else wrong with them though as they don't seem to be in any kind of condition.  Where I now live the hard winter we had a few years ago really gave the hare population a hammering.  Going back 30 years ago there was a hare or 2 in every field on the outskirts of Kinmount estate, Scotland.

 

We used to take a lot of rabbits and hares off Drigg beach and around Haverig open prison.  They were only used for dog food as they were very lean and the butchers we sold to would feel their backs and reject them.  I was on there one night after hares and didn't see a single one for the first hour.  I was beginning to think that some other lads must have been on just before us. This was until I put the lamp on a field of winter wheat just starting to grow.  There must have been 30 -40 hares all in this one big flat field stuffing their faces. I had never seen anything like it.  We caught 2 of them the rest scarpered (the moon was half out with no wind)

 

Around 5 years ago the rabbit population in my area really got out of hand (I do live way out in the wilds) and the farmers were starting to panic I counted over 70 in one field next to my house. I was working in Hexham at the time and it was the same there.  I had some of my old mates from West Cumbria come across with the ferrets and they were taking a car boot full of live ones home to try and repopulate them back over there.  I would be shooting a dozen a week just in my garden.  I don't know what happened but I think they must have changed the strain of myxy or something but they were nearly all gone within 2 years.  There's still a good few here but nothing like there was.



#7398 FUJI

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:59 am

Drigg lol,my cousin & auntie both have land & farms all around there,i ain't EVER even asked to have a walk on their ground although my lad goes on to help keep the vermin at bay..I've never been a lover of Drigg & around there,i can recall having a wander about the dunes years ago,couldn't take two steps without an Adder confronting you lol,the place is ALIVE with them,my mate was just picking them up and helping them shed their skin as they were doing at the time!! Young & reckless b*****d!! Did hold huge numbers of bunnies back in the day but you would be lucky to catch a handful now & that's being optimistic!! Bigger & more profitable critters were aplenty though just the opposite side of the main road towards Barrow 👍

#7399 bob84

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:28 am

This is like reeling in the years keep the picture coming lads.

#7400 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 01:05 pm

 

Is a cur not a collie.?


Comparing a fell cur to a collie is like comparing a saluki to a greyhound. Basically the same dog to most people but they are totally different types of dog more in the way they work and move than looks.

 

 

I would agree BlackDog.  My first experience of a Cur was when I was 15, just left school and working on a farm (live in).  We had a cur for the cattle and a border type for the sheep.  The Cur was to hard on the sheep and the Border didn't have the bottle for Cattle (bullocks) they were a wild bunch of ba$$tards who could kick front ways back ways and side ways and would always face up to a dog.  The Cur would be used to drive cattle forward whereas the Border would herd. The Cur we had was a black colour but not solid black like a collie more mottled, leggier and lighter with a head that looked to big for her body smooth double coat with pricked ears and some fawn and grey on her front and head. They did in fact look very much like a Kelpie ( I will post a picture of a kelpie which could have passed for a fell Cur)

 

Most farm had the same set up cattle dogs and sheep dogs the Curs all looked similar but different.  It' a bit like someone asking you to describe a lurcher.  I was always of the opinion that farmers regarded Curs as replaceable and inferior to their Borders.  At one point our border had her leg broken by a stirk and we were using the Cur.  It was a nightmare the farmer would be screaming and shouting threatening to shoot that f8cking Cur every time it put a hole in a milk cows udder going in to hard or had a sheep or lamb down on the deck.

 

I will talk some more on the Cur dog if any one is interested.

Attached File  kelpie.jpg   64.62KB   0 downloads


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#7401 bob84

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:00 pm

So in other words a cur it a mongrel breed collie with better drive.I now a wait the abuse haha

#7402 Phil Lloyd

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:15 pm

:clapper: Real interested Fellah,..in fact,..for most of my life, I have always been, extremely close to quitting the lurchers and going with the Herding dogs.  They have always been a draw for me....

My Father and Grandfather both used sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs,...our Collies were a reet mixed bunch !

 

I've handled dogs from all around the UK and noticed that there is a marked difference, in what folk term a Border Collie,...In fact, they come in all shapes, sizes,..and obviously colours..They also differ greatly, in temperament, mental hardness and willingness to work varying types of stock....All in all,.I really rate such critters,...and as I say,..if I had not chosen the path of a hunter, I would have made Herding dogs, Borders, Beardies, Huntaways, Kelpies and Oz Dogs my main business,...but, instead,..I followed the ferrets and Nets, earned some vonga as a Pester and kept heavily influenced Collified 'Cur Dog' style lurchers....

My favourite dog today just has to be, a Kelpie... :yes: 

 

Doubt that I'll ever own one now....  :no:

 

Keep up the interesting posts,...all the best, Phil.


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#7403 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:24 pm

In a nutshell yes.  Yes one could look a bit like a working welsh sheep dog tri coloured and the next like ragamuffin Border Collie.  I have what I would call a sort of Cur on a chain out side my door now.  She was a reject from a neighbouring farm who bought her for sheep but she never worked out.  She must be a stone heavier now than when she first came so not a great representative of her breed, but if I can find a working camera I will take a pic of her.  when she first came she would catch rabbits for fun in front of my rocking horse whippet.  Below is a pic of what one might look like IT ISN'T THE ONE I HAVE HERE.

Attached Files


Edited by toblue, 04 April 2016 - 02:25 pm.

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#7404 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:37 pm

The pictures are only to give you some idea of what a cur looks like I haven't seen what I would call a true Cur working on the Cumbrian fells for 38 years.  Even the ones I bred from 30 years ago were nothing like.



#7405 Blackdog92

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:52 pm

The pictures are only to give you some idea of what a cur looks like I haven't seen what I would call a true Cur working on the Cumbrian fells for 38 years.  Even the ones I bred from 30 years ago were nothing like.

You should start up another thread im intrested in what you have to say and what you think a true cur is 👍

Dont want to change the topic after 450 pages of minshaw debate.

Edited by Blackdog92, 04 April 2016 - 02:56 pm.

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#7406 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:58 pm

I think you are correct it is a Minshaw topic and not a Cur dog topic.


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#7407 FUJI

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 03:49 pm

Toblue this was the bitch my friend in Ireland brought over here to be mated with my dog Jack the big black dog i posted a pic of a few posts back,Jack was a grandson of Minshaw's Blue via both his sire & dam & he was also a great great grandson of Blue through his dams dam lol,this bitch is only used on cattle,she's very highly regarded at her job so much so it cost 2000 to "loan" her to breed a litter from her..i still have the dog from the litter albeit he is now gone 7 years old & only a glimmer of the dog he once was..cattle dog,collie dog or cur dog? I don't know & being honest i don't really care lol,she produced & gave me a dog I've had some fantastic hunting with over the years,a very obedient dog,stamina as good as any,the full spectrum of gear was within in compass,no he was never fast but he was fast enough & always seemed to be in the right place to make a catch..i did,do & always will have a place in my kennels for a cur,collie,cattle dog call them what you will? We all know they can have their quirks but life would be plain boring if everyone & everything was the same & that includes our lurchers 🍻


PICT0644-1.jpg
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#7408 jukel123

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:02 pm

Seen this? Somebody posted it on here some time back.


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#7409 Chicken_man

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:59 pm

The pictures are only to give you some idea of what a cur looks like I haven't seen what I would call a true Cur working on the Cumbrian fells for 38 years.  Even the ones I bred from 30 years ago were nothing like.

You should start up another thread im intrested in what you have to say and what you think a true cur is 👍

Dont want to change the topic after 450 pages of minshaw debate.
Yes please, start another thread, real interested thanks
Atb

#7410 toblue

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:29 pm

Phil Lloyd I am sure you could make a great contribution to a new Cur topic I will start one off soon.

 

FUJI What a great post.  I would call that bitch a cur but it doesn't really matter what I would call her, any dog man with eyes in his head can see she is the proper sort.  Being a day time man at heart I would love to see what your 7 year old dog out of her would produce if put to right type of greyhound bitch or genuine 1st cross Greyhound x Whippet bitch.  They would be dynamite with probably zero litter wastage.

 

Jukel I really enjoyed that video.  Just like Cur cattle dogs would work on the fells but not to such a high standard as shown in the video.  The bullocks were just as rough and so were the cur dogs but the dogs in the video were so controlled amongst sheep.  The fell curs were sometimes uncontrollable or maybe just untrained, who knows.

 

I will cut this post short as I don't want to go off the Minshaw topic.  Maybe the Jukel, FUJI and Phill Lloyd posts could be transferred to a new topic.  I am sure it would interest a few people.


Edited by toblue, 04 April 2016 - 09:38 pm.

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