shotgun for deer

[CharlieT 32]

Like I said I will be using ballistic tip with back stop but I have spoken with natural England/defra as I still wanted to know the answer to. The question and the answer is anyone that has permission in writing can shoot deer in season with a 12 gauge with a min of aaa shot if it I'd believed they are going too or have caused damage be it a field or a garden they consider a coppies of trees to be any thing more then one and damage can be anything such as a hedge plants, baiting is illegal if this is done for sport but used in a management plan is not and is seen as no different to a deer lawn in a wood or forest so now we all know the law o one other thing you still need to have deer on your certificate before you. Shoot one with. What ever gun you choice

 

Shows how much the person you spoke yo at DEFRA/Natural England knows then. You can only use AAA not as they told you AAA as a minimum.

I would also like your DEFRA spokesman to show exactly where in the Deer Act the use of bait's is prohibited when shooting deer for sport.

 

The Deer Act specifically states:-

(a)he had reasonable grounds for believing that deer of the same species were causing, or had caused, damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or any other form of property on the land;

 

(b)it was likely that further damage would be so caused and any such damage was likely to be serious; and

 

©his action was necessary for the purpose of preventing any such damage

 

The OP, as long as he has authorisation in writing can use a 12 bore with AAA shot to cull marauding deer in the circumstances he describes with impunity. I do so regularly.

Edited May 14, 2012 by CharlieT

[Mark White 25]

Ok I will post the act on later but baiting for sport would be attracting deer to a area where they are not present by using things such as smelly things such as aniseed oil and putting feed out to keep them coming back another eg real case although done by poachers was jam sandwichs put by the side of roads when cars came along they would scare the deer into the roAd then take the deer this is classed as baiting although the poaching one is extreme and breaks more rhen one law. Munjac according to this person are classed as a pest and are not indigenous so if they are on your land and damage has been caused once even to a plant then it is safe to assume if on your land again they will cause more damage giving you the right to kill it with said calibre as it has already been said the land will not be passed for a legal rifle I would be in my right to shoot the deer how ever if the land has been passed for a legal calibre and you own one you would not be aloud to shoot it with a shotgun unless you where out in the field with it for what ever reason and it was ausing damage at that time. I hope this makes sense

[Millet 4,497]

Aniseed oil is meant to be good for atracting deer..

Edited May 14, 2012 by Millet

[coldweld 65]

That person is wrong . Muntjack are called a pest by forresters. BUT are classed as Deer in Law and are covered by the Deer Act. If you are baiting then your claim of Damage is rocky to say the least as you are attracting them to your land.

Even if it is for a safer shot .

 

Remember the law in the UK is Black or white . If you are not obeying the law you are breacking the law . Only politicians and Very rich folk are allowed to bend the law.

Edited May 14, 2012 by coldweld

[paulus 26]

so what happens if you shoot a deer at a pheasent feeder like i mentioned earlier

[COMPO 54]

i have used a 12g and AAA to shoot muntjac a few times......they were causing damage to newly planted tree's in a wood adjacent to a house and a road......as such a rifle was out of the question and they dropped quiet well at 25 yards with 36gm of AAA when shot on the head and chest

[Mark White 25]

That person is wrong . Muntjack are called a pest by forresters. BUT are classed as Deer in Law and are covered by the Deer Act. If you are baiting then your claim of Damage is rocky to say the least as you are attracting them to your land.

Even if it is for a safer shot .

 

Remember the law in the UK is Black or white . If you are not obeying the law you are breacking the law . Only politicians and Very rich folk are allowed to bend the law.

That person is wrong . Muntjack are called a pest by forresters. BUT are classed as Deer in Law and are covered by the Deer Act. If you are baiting then your claim of Damage is rocky to say the least as you are attracting them to your land.

Even if it is for a safer shot .

 

Remember the law in the UK is Black or white . If you are not obeying the law you are breacking the law . Only politicians and Very rich folk are allowed to bend the law.

 

Please read the first few post as you will see I am quite clearly not baiting as i have not shot or even put food down on any ground the deer are already there but to make sure the deer are in a safe spot to be shot I would be-able within the law to put food down on that land to bring them in to a position for a safe and human kill and in the eyes of the law this would be no difference to having a deer lawn in a wood. Shooting deer around a pheasant feeder is legal as long as you are using the feeder for feeding your birds and not using it to purposely attract deer that would not normally be there. I am sorry but the person I spoke to seemed to know the law inside out and as they work directly or are part of defra I find it hard that they would be wrong as they are the people that write or at least enforce the law. the person said they are covered by the deer act but are considered a pest and are none native to this country. any damage they causes can be minimal but if it is believed they are going to cause more and are freely walking on your land then you have the right to shoot them with a 12g of no less then a AAA. other then for the reasons I have already mentioned.

[Mark White 25]

Use of prohibited weapons and other articles.

(1)

Subject to sections 6 and 8 below, if any person—

(a)

sets in position any article which is a trap, snare, or poisoned or stupefying bait and is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any deer coming in contact with it, or (This part of the law allows you to put food down to bring them in to a safe place to kill deer if on your land)

(

uses for the purpose of taking or killing any deer any trap, snare or poisoned or stupefying bait, or any net,

he shall be guilty of an offence.

(2)

Subject to sections 6 to 8 below, if any person uses for the purpose of taking or killing or injuring any deer—

(a)

any firearm or ammunition mentioned in Schedule 2 to this Act,

(

any arrow, spear or similar missile, or

©

any missile, whether discharged from a firearm or otherwise, carrying or containing any poison, stupefying drug or muscle-relaxing agent,

he shall be guilty of an offence.

(3)

The Secretary of State may by order amend Schedule 2 to this Act by adding any firearm or ammunition or by altering the description of, or deleting, any firearm or ammunition for the time being mentioned in that Schedule.

(4)

Subject to subsection (5) below, if any person—

(a)

discharges any firearm, or projects any missile, from any mechanically propelled vehicle at any deer, or

(

uses any mechanically propelled vehicle for the purpose of driving deer,

he shall be guilty of an offence.

(5)

An act which, apart from this subsection, would constitute an offence under subsection (4) above shall not constitute such an offence if it is done—

(a)

by, or with the written authority of, the occupier of any enclosed land where deer are usually kept; and

(

in relation to any deer on that land.

[Mark White 25]

sorry has not come out as it should copied straight off the defra site

[midnight 657]

its a hot patato this one but we all knew it would be hence the thread in the first place !

all the best with it fella , i know you will do what is right and fair !!

[coldweld 65]

Mark i not having a go.

 

The person at Defra is not who will enforce the law the plod or RSPCA will. I have read your post and was tring to point out IF you tried to feed the deer to a spot to shoot it ( safely or not ) you could be accused, with little defence that you were guilty of attracting deer that were not doing damage. But were attracted buy your bait.

 

At the end of the day you will make your choice and that is up to you. But you did ask what could be the pitfalls.

 

 

ATB

Coldweld

[Mark White 25]

yes your right the police or rspca would be the ones that take it to court but as long as i am within the law they would not be able to win this is why I spoke to defra as we all know there are laws that say one thing then others laws that contradict the other and why these laws are there they can be used the amount of damage in this garden is substantial and my signed consent form would prove that the deer have been on that land for a lot longer then I have, I have looked at the grounds and there is a natural back stop and an area where they feed so I dont need to bait any how but I could put a bird feeder in its place as she has geese. so the management plan would work around this. The rspca and other charities use the law to try and prosecute us why can we not use it to do our job. take this case a man is stopped for drink driving he is as pissed as a fart the law says he is guilty of drink driving (NO) not until he has been processed, The law states how this is to be done and at what stages they are to be done in, in court the man was found not guilty although they had on him not being able to stand or walk on tape as the law was not followed in the processing part. the point is if there is a law that lets you do some thing regardless of how many other laws there are that say you cannot you can this is why the police can arrested you for standing on a street for more then 2min in one place but they wont take it to court as there are to many other laws that would allow you to be there., so you would be released without charge. bit off topic but hay ho. I dont think it would be in the rspca interest to prosecute either as this would make headlines and as the law is not clear cut would allow everyone that has a problem with deer know they can be shot with a 12g with AAA and the use of food is legal in the right circumstances. just my opinion. I can see the pitfalls in this every where which is why I asked the question in the first place I love a good debate to.

[COMPO 54]

it would never come to a prosecution anyway........

 

you are acting within the law, the police will have no interest as long as no one calls them complaining.......you could even head that off by informing them you will be shooting vermin at that location and when........dont get into what vermin.......they may ask for your sgc details or fac details as well as your name etc......just to ensure you are legal.

 

the rspca dont have a right of access to private land. and as you are not breaking any laws or causing any cruelty they wont have anything to go on.

 

it is legal what you describe and i wouldn't hesitate in getting it done.....I have done it before.

 

I know of a police inspector who was out pigeon shooting with his 12g on land he had permission for........on his way home he came accross a woman who had hit a roe deer, shattering its pelvis......there was quiet a bit of a que and a postman trying to catch the deer in a sack......................he came forward and assisted the postie in getting the deer into the field adjacent and re-assured the woman he would ensure it got the right medical treatment..............he hushered her to her car and sent her on his way.......however she changed her mind and came back just as the police inspector was pulling the trigger on his 12g shotgun (he only had number 6 shot as he was shooting pigeons-but was obviously up close and personal when he shot the roe and killed it instantly) .....result was she went away and complained..........using his car registration to identify him.......the local police came around and seized all his guns...........two days later he had them back with an apology when they realised he had acted within the law and that he had prevented the deer suffering un-neccesarily

[CharlieT 32]

Mark

 

Not wishing to pick holes but the bit in your post highlighted in red on the deer act copy and paste (about bait) refers to stupefying bait, ie drugged bait and has nothing to do with using bait to attract deer which is quite legal. Notwithstanding Coldweld's sensible comments in his post regarding baiting marauding deer being asking for trouble.

 

There are a tubs of paste specifically made for attracting deer, you smear a little on a tree trunk. May be worth a go in your attempt to bring them into a safe shooting position.

 

They are creatures of habit, traveling along the same track at the same time every day. I would try a well positioned hide, arm myself with a shotgun and AAA and a deck chair. I guarantee you will have success and be quite legal.

 

Good luck.

[HUnter_zero 58]

Very interesting read.

 

Personally I'd just build a fence and be done with it.

 

John