Rhabdomyolsis

[paulus 26]

has anybody had experience with this, 8 days after suffering a bout of this, the muscle loss is unbelivable. hes fine in himself now but my question is how long will this muscle take to come back and will he ever be the same again? all caused because the dog was at a lower level of fitness after recovering from a leg injury and a deer being where it shouldnt have been. so be very carefull lads and lasses and look for the signs, i only new what it was because i rememberd reading an article on here a few years ago, i think it was by sandymere.

[waidmann 105]

is it one of yours paul?

 

i believe the muscle loss could be secondary to the possible renal failiure? (caused by toxins from muscle breakdown)

 

i would say it would take longer to rebuild skeletal muscle ( bone /muscle tie ins etc etc) than muscle mass but i have only read a tiny bit myself and have had no experiance of this first hand at all.

[paulus 26]

is it one of yours paul?

 

i believe the muscle loss could be secondary to the possible renal failiure? (caused by toxins from muscle breakdown)

 

i would say it would take longer to rebuild skeletal muscle ( bone /muscle tie ins etc etc) than muscle mass but i have only read a tiny bit myself and have had no experiance of this first hand at all.

over the posibility of renal failure its been 8 days now, yes mate its deisel. its mainly his loin muscle thats vitually vaniished.

[skycat 6,172]

I never realised that this was the problem: Didn't ask the right questions the muscle will come back, but maybe not quite as it was before. I've only had one experience of this when my 3/4 Grey 1/4 Beardie got on a hare by accident many years ago, after she'd been in season and was very soft muscled. She lost all her back muscles, and although she ran as well as she did before, I didn't run her on hares again, but not because of that: only because I used her for other things and she wasn't really a hare dog as such.

 

She seemed absolutely fine after I'd built her up again, taking over 3 months, very slowly and carefully increasing the exercise, though she was never as broad in the back as she had been before. Didn't seem to affect her running though.

 

Gentle, palm of the hand massage, once the pain has gone will help to get the blood circulating well, but don't overdo it. I'm sure Sandymere will have more advice on this.

Edited April 21, 2012 by skycat

[paulus 26]

I never realised that this was the problem: Didn't ask the right questions the muscle will come back, but maybe not quite as it was before. I've only had one experience of this when my 3/4 Grey 1/4 Beardie got on a hare by accident many years ago, after she'd been in season and was very soft muscled. She lost all her back muscles, and although she ran as well as she did before, I didn't run her on hares again, but not because of that: only because I used her for other things and she wasn't really a hare dog as such.

 

She seemed absolutely fine after I'd built her up again, taking over 3 months, very slowly and carefully increasing the exercise, though she was never as broad in the back as she had been before. Didn't seem to affect her running though.

 

Gentle, palm of the hand massage, once the pain has gone will help to get the blood circulating well, but don't overdo it. I'm sure Sandymere will have more advice on this.

double post

[paulus 26]

I never realised that this was the problem: Didn't ask the right questions the muscle will come back, but maybe not quite as it was before. I've only had one experience of this when my 3/4 Grey 1/4 Beardie got on a hare by accident many years ago, after she'd been in season and was very soft muscled. She lost all her back muscles, and although she ran as well as she did before, I didn't run her on hares again, but not because of that: only because I used her for other things and she wasn't really a hare dog as such.

 

She seemed absolutely fine after I'd built her up again, taking over 3 months, very slowly and carefully increasing the exercise, though she was never as broad in the back as she had been before. Didn't seem to affect her running though.

 

Gentle, palm of the hand massage, once the pain has gone will help to get the blood circulating well, but don't overdo it. I'm sure Sandymere will have more advice on this.

what is frightening is the fact it took 20hrs from the incident for the symptoms to appear by which time the damage is already done.

from this to this in 8 days despite eating and drinking as normal

[waidmann 105]

i hope the dog makes a full recovery and is back working soon bud.

 

 

waidmannsheil!!

[Simoman 110]

Im sure you will get him right Paul, the muscle loss is shocking...

[paulus 26]

Im sure you will get him right Paul, the muscle loss is shocking...

its horrible to see mate.

[Strong Stuff 2,171]

Happened with my lurcher, ran him too much one night (or rather didn't stop him early enough).

Dog was in vets for 4 days after, he'd gone blind, deaf etc, with hindsight I should have let him go, but ......... I didn't, and he really was never the same again, I'm not shy when it comes to conditioning, it's why I have dogs to spend time out with them, but my lurcher never seemed to get his wind back.

 

Hope you have better results than I did.

[paulus 26]

Happened with my lurcher, ran him too much one night (or rather didn't stop him early enough).

Dog was in vets for 4 days after, he'd gone blind, deaf etc, with hindsight I should have let him go, but ......... I didn't, and he really was never the same again, I'm not shy when it comes to conditioning, it's why I have dogs to spend time out with them, but my lurcher never seemed to get his wind back.

 

Hope you have better results than I did.

all i can do is give it time and see how it goes mate.

[beast 1,884]

never had this problem with my dogs, but it can be very serious. first you need to make sure the kidney function isn't affected, the vet can check this from bloods. when you get the all clear, gradually build up exercise and good-quality protein intake. muscle is a pretty resilient tissue and regenerates pretty well so you should get most of the mass back, if not all. good luck, keep us posted

[sandymere 8,261]

General on the subject from back along attached.

You've got the summer to recover, good hydration, don't over do the protein but sensible amounts and build up gradually from here. Monitor for excessive stiffness and encourage plenty of water after running to maximize kidney function.

Good luck s

 

Rhabdomyolysis

 

It’s not uncommon for a dog, or ourselves for that matter, to be a little stiff and sore for a few days after a hard run this is often described a delayed onset muscle soreness or DOMS. DOMS is fairly predictable and not usually to serious a problem that is in all likelihood due to inflammation of the muscles from damage to a small proportion of muscle fibers and the resulting pain this causes. More worrying are recently a couple of instances where owners of lurchers have noticed their dogs showing signs of severe muscle soreness and or cramps with urinating what appears to be blood the day after a hard session. This is often followed by a drop in condition for a time after wards to a greater or lesser degree. A common suggestion as to the cause of this seems to be a build up of lactic acid but in light of modern thinking, discounting lactic acid as the bad boy and high-lighting its role as an important energy source, this theory doesn’t seem to hold water. So what could be going on?

One idea is that the dark brown/red urine is not due just to blood alone but also the contents of damaged muscle cells, myoglobin and creatine kinase, that are released into the blood stream and this is known as rhabdomyolysis (RMS). When the released myoglobin is excreted by the kidneys it gives the urine a dark brown colour. The difference between DOMS and RMS is the extent of the muscle damage involved and the effect this has on the kidneys. High levels of myoglobin can cause kidney failure to the extent that long term damage or even death is a possibility.

So why does this happen? RMS was first described in the blitz when people trapped under fallen buildings suffered extensive crush type injuries which lead to major muscle damage; this led to the release of large amounts of the muscle cell contents. Since then it has been described in a variety of species with a genetic link in some breeds of both horses and dogs. But these lurchers had not suffered any such injuries and sight hounds are rarely prone to genetic faults so how had they come to cause so much damage to their bodies? A strong possibility is suggested by looking at the background. In both cases the hounds had had long hard runs at the beginning of the season when they were at less than optimum preparedness and in truth they were both weekend warriors who may lack true working fitness even when at their best. This lack of fitness may have resulted in over exertion of some off the largest muscles in the body leading to extensive damage/breakdown and so exertional rhabdomyolysis.

Conditioned muscles in both humans and dogs are usually able to cope with exercise, unless there is a genetic variance, and the body has a variety of methods to protect itself against over exertion but sight hounds have been bred for generations to push the boundaries of the possible so bringing them nearer to the red line than most breeds. This ability to push the limits may mean that, if the incentive is right, they can cross the line when unfit to the extent that DOMS is extremely likely but also doing serious harm to their own bodies is a possibility. So what can we do to recognise treat and avoids these problems.

The main symptoms are severe muscle pain, cramping and altered gait with blood/very dark urine. Early recognition is important in the long term outcome. Your vet can check for chemicals in the urine and blood to confirm the diagnosis. And the vet is the best person to lead the treatment as depending on the extent of the problem intravenous fluids with powerful pain killers may be required. Appropriate management of renal function is the major concern but also the causative muscle breakdown needs to be addressed and a regime to rehabilitation and conditioning the dog to prevent future occurrences should be instigated. Good hydration is always of great importance as dehydration may increases the risk of muscle damage and post exercise will increase the strain on the kidneys. Also concentrated urine may well be very dark in the absence of any illness so muddying the waters some what.

Any dog that seems to be suffering exercise intolerance should always have a thorough check out with your veterinary surgeon to exclude any underlying heart, lung or systemic illness and check for any structural problems. A genetic predisposition to RMS may mean an animal needs special consideration as to it’s working ability but for normally fit and healthy dogs without any underlying problems then prevention is so much better than cure. Prevention means good preparation before work after a seasonal or injury enforced lay off plus regular top ups for the weekend warriors.

 

Cheer sandy.

[paulus 26]

cheers for the info, a quick update, day 10 hes fine in himself now, his panting has stopped now hes off the anti inflamatories, his pins are showing less and hes eating for england. he still looks wierd as his front end is muscular, his back legs are muscular yet he has nothing on his loin and middle. hes still on short road walks roughly 2 miles twice a day. if everything keeps improving this week i will move onto free excercise next week although i must admit im worried another acident will happen.

[skycat 6,172]

Personally I wouldn't let him exercise free for at least another 3 weeks: the back muscles have atrophied, which means that they are very weak, and any running will put them under stress. I'd treat him in the same way as a dog that has been very ill or kennel bound for a very long time, which means a good month of lead walking/trotting, before you start any galloping. The trouble is that dogs don't know what they should or shouldn't do, unlike adult human athletes who know exactly what sort of exercise is good for them, and for how long to do it. I may be over cautious here, but IMO it is better to be safe than sorry.