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sandymere

Coursing thirst.

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Paulus: were you going to pin this? Would be really useful, especially at this time of year, still warm, and with peoples' dogs not yet properly fit. Even fit dogs which are out running rabbit after rabbit during a night, can come unstuck if they get an unexpected long run on something which takes them a lot further than a bunny. The dog may be fine for repeated short runs on rabbits, but it is the sustained effort behind something else that can do the damage, especially if the dog has a big heart and pushes itself beyond its limits.

i did :laugh:

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An excellent read ,thanks for the link penny and paulus for bumping it up :thumbs:

Right so I had Toby at the vets this morning explained what had gone on i.e: drinking like there was going to be a water shortage and flooding the garden when having a pee but the pee was clear no yellow no red and all that had settled over the last 48hrs i told the vet what had maybe caused the symptoms and that I thought Toby was fit and what fitness regime I have gave him ....the vet did not think it would be anything serious maybe over heated she spoke about electrolites with me and said with what they use is more for dehydrartion and that Toby did not seem at all dehydrated ,so a urine sample was giving and i am awaiting the results , now with what i have read here a bit of too and throw from different parties my mind is well baffled as to what to give a dog in the situation i was in, some say recharge ,electrolites some just water then there is talk of b12 vits .....so what is the best prevention and curitive to these situations

 

thanks in advance steve

ps Toby is deer/grey/collie/grey x collie/grey/bed/whip

If you read the thread all the way through, you'll see that there is no way to prevent a dog from running too hard once it is off the lead and in pursuit of something. Look at it this way: I'm a sprinter, but someone gets me to run in a marathon, at sprint speed. What happens? After a fairly short while, my heart can't pump the oxygenated blood to my leg muscles fast enough. Damage occurs. Of course this wouldn't really happen in a human, because our brains tell us when we have done too much. Look at Paula Radcliffe during the Greek Olympic marathon. She was ill, couldn't run properly, and literally had to stop and sit down on the side of the road, and she wasn't even trying to sprint.

Domestic working dogs have been bred to run through the pain barrier, run although their hearts and lungs are on fire. No wild animal would deliberately do that. Look at the specialist sprinter, the cheetah. They can only do a few hundred yards before they have to stop, give up on the hunt. We've altered our dogs so they just keep going. A case of drive beating self-preservation. It is not unheard of for a Greyhound to kill itself trying to catch the hare, why they built escape routes for the hare to get into after a few hundred yards of coursing. During Greyhound coursing, it also happens that a dog which does get an unexpectedly long run, where they manage to keep the hare in the field for longer than usual, for that dog to be almost unable to run in the following round.

Yes, you can improve his levels of endurance by slowly working up to the highest level he can reach, but it is the sustained running behind a hare which his body may never be able to achieve to beyond a certain limit. His muscles just aren't built for that job. So even though you may slip him in on runs when the hare is already tired (a questionable activity at best) to get him fitter and better used to long distance runs, there will always be a time limit beyond which he cannot run. Do you see what I mean?

It's not because the dog is useless, he's just not built for it.

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From that you posted above sounds like coursing thirst and in truth there is no real way to completely stop it as even the fittest of dogs can run into difficulties. Keep them fit and try not to over run them as far as possible but stuff happens. The main thing is to cool the dog down asap so that it doesn’t feel the need to keep drinking then watch it closely for any signs of the urine becoming darker or red/brown, deep muscle pain etc basically signs of rhabdomyolysis.

just to add the symptoms of rhabdomyolysis can take 24 to 48 hours to develop, things to keep an eye out for are, discoloured urine, soreness across the back and flanks, unwillingness to lay or sit down preferring to lean against something whilst standing and lastly shocking muscle loss and resulting weight loss, heres a before and 48hrs later, it takes months and months to build a dogs fitness and muscle back up after an episode, as sandy says the key to limiting damage is to cool the dog as fast as possible, knowing where available water sources are is invaluable knowledge

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Thanks for all your info on this and from what I can see the only preventive is keep the chuffing dog on the lead ,but that aint ever going to happen as its unfair to the dog accidents happen as we all know and this is where from what I see is where the prey drive comes into it and races ahead of the body's capability ,esp when you have a 15 month old pup thats capable of the job and good old Toby will want whats in front of her more than anything in the world .

I can see by your pics paulus how it can affect the dog in weight loss across the back, Ive not noticed any weight loss on him as yet but will keep an eye on him cheers.

 

thanks again

steve

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Thanks for all your info on this and from what I can see the only preventive is keep the chuffing dog on the lead ,but that aint ever going to happen as its unfair to the dog accidents happen as we all know and this is where from what I see is where the prey drive comes into it and races ahead of the body's capability ,esp when you have a 15 month old pup thats capable of the job and good old Toby will want whats in front of her more than anything in the world .

I can see by your pics paulus how it can affect the dog in weight loss across the back, Ive not noticed any weight loss on him as yet but will keep an eye on him cheers.

 

thanks again

steve

the truth is, its all part and parcel of running dogs, i suspect it was just coursing thirst in your case, but being able to recognise the symptoms is something everyone should familiarise themselves with, the other conditions are just further down the same road as coursing thirst, reasons, well you could go mad trying to find one, the best you can do is keep the dogs as fit as possible the rest is down to luck and nature neither of which we have any control over.

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Thanks for all your info on this and from what I can see the only preventive is keep the chuffing dog on the lead ,but that aint ever going to happen as its unfair to the dog accidents happen as we all know and this is where from what I see is where the prey drive comes into it and races ahead of the body's capability ,esp when you have a 15 month old pup thats capable of the job and good old Toby will want whats in front of her more than anything in the world .

I can see by your pics paulus how it can affect the dog in weight loss across the back, Ive not noticed any weight loss on him as yet but will keep an eye on him cheers.

 

thanks again

steve

the truth is, its all part and parcel of running dogs, i suspect it was just coursing thirst in your case, but being able to recognise the symptoms is something everyone should familiarise themselves with, the other conditions are just further down the same road as coursing thirst, reasons, well you could go mad trying to find one, the best you can do is keep the dogs as fit as possible the rest is down to luck and nature neither of which we have any control over.

 

spot on paulus....the other part is I think is for the owner to know there dog ,thats why I like my dogs to be around the family as much as possible so I can pick up on things like this straight away.

Phoned the vet for the results for them to tell me there was nothing in the urine sample that would suggest there was anything wrong with Toby and all was ok ,so a clean bill of health will let me carry on with the rest of the season ill start off slowly then onwards and upwards :thumbs:

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One would expect rhabdomyolysis to show in the urine results, presence of myoglobin, so negative is a good result.

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I know this is an old'un, but very informative....

 

So are any types of dog more likely to get coursing thirst or rhabdomyolysis more than others? Obviously unfit types but as in breed types...

 

Please excuse me for sounding a bit simple, but what I can make of all of this is that the fitter the dog, the less likely of either...Coursing thirst or the big R word?

 

And after a long hard run, watch for excessive drinking (which should be aloud) and cool the dog down ASAP. Then if you see redish coloured urine or uncomfort its off to the vets...

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