skycat 6,172 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 IMO there's nothing more infuriating than when you're mooching along, your dog spots a rabbit in the next field, or a good distance away, takes off after it while you're trying to attract its attention to the rabbit you have spotted squatting tight only a few feet away from you! That is when good training comes in handy. If the dog is always allowed to hunt up by itself, with no direction from you, then it won't see you as anything very important in the hunt, and will consequently ignore you when you try to direct it. There's a fine line between getting a lurcher pup out in the field and learning how to hunt, gaining good field craft skills, and simply taking a dog out for a walk and letting it do its own thing. IMO the balance comes from doing obedience training in the field from an early age, and getting the dog focused on you as well as looking for game. Which is one (and the only) reason why I like myxie rabbits for pups. Myxie rabbits sit about in the daylight, and they're ideal for directing a pup on to them when you spot them: much better than just letting a pup tear about after impossible rabbits in the distance. This way the pup learns that you are instrumental in its success, and will see you as an important part of the hunting team rather than just someone who shouts and bawls when it gallops three fields away after stuff it has no chance of catching. Talking daytime mooching rabbiting dogs here. totaly agree with what your saying so how would that compare to the requirements of a lamping dog in your opinion I've never used a lurcher just for lamping because I do as much, if not more, day time work, but if I were to train a dog just for lamping I would still teach it field craft by day: ditches, fences etc: and I'd still get it picking up rabbits by day when the dog can see what it's doing, be aware of the dangers and obstacles. In fact, I don't know anyone who never lets their dog see a day time rabbit and only lamps it: the thought of running a green, non field wise dog on the lamp makes my blood run cold: lamping is dangerous enough as it is without putting a high drive dog out in the dark running anything: most game will head for cover, and at the very least you would want your dog to know how to handle itself round cover, fences etc. To me the whole process of getting a pup to catch rabbits is a long, slow process with each step dictated to the owner by the maturity and type of the pup. Some pups take longer to get the hang of things: looking ahead, assessing their surroundings etc very early, others are content just to play and have fun. IMO its all about reading the pup, and knowing when it is ready, but I've never lamped a pup under 12 months of age, though if I lived somewhere where the rabbits were more plentiful, slower and less shy, on ground which is easier, then I probably would if the pup was the early maturing type. There's no hard and fast rule for a dog as varied in temperament, size and type as a lurcher. I do think that if you are training a dog which is mainly or only going to be used for lamping, it may be best not to let it see too many rabbits by day: my own dogs take a while to cotton on to the fact that night time rabbits sit in the hedge or dyke bottoms, and don't just go straight to ground: a wee bit frustrating to begin with, but they've seen so many day time rabbits they take a while to learn that rabbits by night don't behave in the same way. Or maybe my dogs aren't high drive enough! God help me when I start lamping the Airedale crosses it'll be bust a gut every time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Think folk are confusing training a pup and working a pup. Teach the basics young and as the pup develops change the training to suit. I don't understand the logic of letting a pup run free for the first 6months of it's life...but then again I am a simpleton Well thats why theres so many different views in training dogs.....fact of the matter is i grew up watching my grandad train dogs, never once did i see him through a dummy for a dog and his golden rule was let the pup be a pup and i never saw him with a bad dog......and there were some real crackers along the way. Not talking trailing dogs here and the pups didnt come from this kc reg to the next kc reg they were working dogs bought along the way and then a litter when needed....... Think al stick to this method mate......everytime i open the kennel door i'm reminded that it works...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
watchman 256 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) IMO there's nothing more infuriating than when you're mooching along, your dog spots a rabbit in the next field, or a good distance away, takes off after it while you're trying to attract its attention to the rabbit you have spotted squatting tight only a few feet away from you! That is when good training comes in handy. If the dog is always allowed to hunt up by itself, with no direction from you, then it won't see you as anything very important in the hunt, and will consequently ignore you when you try to direct it. There's a fine line between getting a lurcher pup out in the field and learning how to hunt, gaining good field craft skills, and simply taking a dog out for a walk and letting it do its own thing. IMO the balance comes from doing obedience training in the field from an early age, and getting the dog focused on you as well as looking for game. Which is one (and the only) reason why I like myxie rabbits for pups. Myxie rabbits sit about in the daylight, and they're ideal for directing a pup on to them when you spot them: much better than just letting a pup tear about after impossible rabbits in the distance. This way the pup learns that you are instrumental in its success, and will see you as an important part of the hunting team rather than just someone who shouts and bawls when it gallops three fields away after stuff it has no chance of catching. Talking daytime mooching rabbiting dogs here. totaly agree with what your saying so how would that compare to the requirements of a lamping dog in your opinion I've never used a lurcher just for lamping because I do as much, if not more, day time work, but if I were to train a dog just for lamping I would still teach it field craft by day: ditches, fences etc: and I'd still get it picking up rabbits by day when the dog can see what it's doing, be aware of the dangers and obstacles. In fact, I don't know anyone who never lets their dog see a day time rabbit and only lamps it: the thought of running a green, non field wise dog on the lamp makes my blood run cold: lamping is dangerous enough as it is without putting a high drive dog out in the dark running anything: most game will head for cover, and at the very least you would want your dog to know how to handle itself round cover, fences etc. To me the whole process of getting a pup to catch rabbits is a long, slow process with each step dictated to the owner by the maturity and type of the pup. Some pups take longer to get the hang of things: looking ahead, assessing their surroundings etc very early, others are content just to play and have fun. IMO its all about reading the pup, and knowing when it is ready, but I've never lamped a pup under 12 months of age, though if I lived somewhere where the rabbits were more plentiful, slower and less shy, on ground which is easier, then I probably would if the pup was the early maturing type. There's no hard and fast rule for a dog as varied in temperament, size and type as a lurcher. I do think that if you are training a dog which is mainly or only going to be used for lamping, it may be best not to let it see too many rabbits by day: my own dogs take a while to cotton on to the fact that night time rabbits sit in the hedge or dyke bottoms, and don't just go straight to ground: a wee bit frustrating to begin with, but they've seen so many day time rabbits they take a while to learn that rabbits by night don't behave in the same way. Or maybe my dogs aren't high drive enough! God help me when I start lamping the Airedale crosses it'll be bust a gut every time! spot on just because i said i mainly lamp them doesnt mean they never see the light of day,i get mine out from a young age and try to achieve all you have said,perhaps mine are trained to a higher standard than i give them credit for,or maybe they aint Edited June 22, 2011 by watchman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ive got one Lurcher, his training started on day one of him coming home, he was trained not to pull on wool and was cattle broke from a real early age, i trained him some very basic commands very well. IMO there is so much we can do with pups before they hit the field. Hand signals are a good trick to have up your sleeve also, in fact i think it was J.Darcy who inspired me to train my Lurcher to high standards. A pup is most responsive to learning between 5-9 weeks of age, Starter pistols are good from this age to make a dog stable around noise also dvd's of fireworks and gun shots are available and very effective (nothing worse than seeing a dog turn to Jelly after a couple of gun shots). Even walking over crunchy plastic and puddles or stones steps etc will build confidence in a pup, its all about getting them into as many different enviroments as possable from an early age, try training your dog in the middle of a car boot with distractions arround, after all some of the pups commands could save his life one day but only if taught well. Then theres physical training, somthing i keep light for the first year or two (allowing growth plates to settle) and joints to strenthen etc.. A well trained dog is far less likely to find himself in trouble out in the open. YIS D f**k me you had to read jd,s book to tell you that you have to train a lurcher to a high standard taking them out would tell you that if you have one thats wild and untrained you would catch next to f**k all compared to one that is there you go mate just saved you £30 on another book ffs I didnt HAVE to no, but like i said somthing i read in a book (im sure it was JD'S) highlighted to me that a well trained dog would suit me a lot better than an average trained dog. I would have saved a lot of money had i known about this site a lot sooner, its full of know it all smart arses . YIS D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i was about to say its full of folks that work there dogs but obviously id be wrong if they even thought they had to read a book to get there dog to do what they wanted to do but maybe i should go get my self one it seems to be the in thing to do these days eh plummer yis smart arse no.1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i was about to say its full of folks that work there dogs but obviously id be wrong if they even thought they had to read a book to get there dog to do what they wanted to do but maybe i should go get my self one it seems to be the in thing to do these days eh plummer yis smart arse no.1 You'd better get 1 with lots of pictures......maybe even a pop up book.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i was about to say its full of folks that work there dogs but obviously id be wrong if they even thought they had to read a book to get there dog to do what they wanted to do but maybe i should go get my self one it seems to be the in thing to do these days eh plummer yis smart arse no.1 I dont recall anyone on this thread saying they needed to read a book?? but hey your version sounds a lot better . Ive won world titles with my dogs mate, but always room to learn more. READ AND GROW INWARDLY (obviously that doesnt apply to you as your THL Guru) . YIS D :headshot:: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 im no guru at anything bulldoug i just no what you have to do to stop coming home empty handed and i didnt need jd,s book to enlighten me afterall its not rocket science its hunting hense the people were surrounded by Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sirius 1,358 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) I always start training early with any dog,the pup i have here i taught to 'sit and 'down' in a hours training the day after I brought him home at 7 weeks. I would do this with any dog regardless of breed or type. All dogs will benefit from early socialisation to tasks that they will be expected to encounter in the future and of course the world in general. But The cruxs of the matter is doing this at the right rate to suit the dog. Leaving the training of any type of dog till 12 months is making the job much harder for yourself. I am not talking entering to work, just training as the whole 'entering at what age' debate is whole other can of worms Edited June 22, 2011 by Sirius Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 im no guru at anything bulldoug i just no what you have to do to stop coming home empty handed and i didnt need jd,s book to enlighten me afterall its not rocket science its hunting hense the people were surrounded by Whats the point being surrounded by like minded people if we cant learn from each others experiences?? How youve managed to put a negative stint on this thread is beyond me but a wise man learns from someone elses mistakes. A lot of books i read (on lots of subjects other than hunting) are repetetive and pointless but a good book is a good book and if it helps you in anyway pick up on somthing thats useful, where can the harm be?? Anyhow your posts are getting repetetive and pointless IMO, so lets leave it here and hopefully the thread can take a more possitive direction. YIS D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 im no guru at anything bulldoug i just no what you have to do to stop coming home empty handed and i didnt need jd,s book to enlighten me afterall its not rocket science its hunting hense the people were surrounded by Whats the point being surrounded by like minded people if we cant learn from each others experiences?? How youve managed to put a negative stint on this thread is beyond me but a wise man learns from someone elses mistakes. A lot of books i read (on lots of subjects other than hunting) are repetetive and pointless but a good book is a good book and if it helps you in anyway pick up on somthing thats useful, where can the harm be?? Anyhow your posts are getting repetetive and pointless IMO, so lets leave it here and hopefully the thread can take a more possitive direction. YIS D a philosipher and a trophy winning dog trainer i am impressed doug. maybe you should pm jd an ask him to take you out an teach you one to one like i did its more exciting that way :kiss: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 One thing i would like to add as a reletive New Lurcher man is that for all ive taught my dog, he has taught me ten fold,, never forget to read your dog as he is the natural hunter after all, a good partnership see's dog and owner looking for each others reactions in the field,,and when your bouncing off each other liker this youve nailed it IMO of course YIS D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 im no guru at anything bulldoug i just no what you have to do to stop coming home empty handed and i didnt need jd,s book to enlighten me afterall its not rocket science its hunting hense the people were surrounded by Whats the point being surrounded by like minded people if we cant learn from each others experiences?? How youve managed to put a negative stint on this thread is beyond me but a wise man learns from someone elses mistakes. A lot of books i read (on lots of subjects other than hunting) are repetetive and pointless but a good book is a good book and if it helps you in anyway pick up on somthing thats useful, where can the harm be?? Anyhow your posts are getting repetetive and pointless IMO, so lets leave it here and hopefully the thread can take a more possitive direction. YIS D a philosipher and a trophy winning dog trainer i am impressed doug. maybe you should pm jd an ask him to take you out an teach you one to one like i did its more exciting that way :kiss: Working title and show trophy are worlds apart but i only read books so what would i know. Hey mate your concern for what i should and shouldnt be doing is starting to concern me, after all your not my real mum . ATB Bogger D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 in your own admission your new to lurchers so why are you even chipping in let alone handing out advice on training? seriously why? think il go on the gamekeepers section and give some advice to the highland keepers how to shoot grouse after all i saw one the other day when i drove past 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 in your own admission your new to lurchers so why are you even chipping in let alone handing out advice on training? seriously why? think il go on the gamekeepers section and give some advice to the highland keepers how to shoot grouse after all i saw one the other day when i drove past Your doing my nut in now son, fook off and nause some other c**t. Ive trained Bull breeds for 20 years, whats your problem?? COME ON DONT BE SHY? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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