pcp are they really worth it????????????/

[andyfr1968 772]

Back on track.....

 

I'd only ever owned springers and the odd pump up until I'd tried a few modern ones at Davy's do in 09. I was having a bad day with my 90 and I was very impressed by the guns I tried. There was Davy and Scuba's 410s, an HW100, a couple for BSAs and did someone have an FN19, or am I remembering wrong...?

 

The only other PCPs I'd used before were first generation from twentyish years ago, unreliable, p*ss poor shot count and VERY expensive I was amazed as to how far they'd come.

 

I got myself a 410c and was very impressed by it to begin with but after a while it just left me cold somehow and I started useing the 90 again. Money's been rather tight of late and the 410's now gone but I've still got my HW90 and RWS52...

 

Cheers.

Edited January 12, 2011 by andyfr1968

[ghillies 209]

Well lads, its a funny 'ol conundrum this. I have been fortunate to have owned lots of airguns, both spring and PCP. To be honest the PCP's are quieter and often have a magazine . Thats great and quick back up shots are easy to perform. However, i do love the good old springers. When i get my HW77 up and running i will put a post or two up with what i shoot. The one good thing about springers is that you do not run out of air! im not joking, if i am doing a good stint with the gun i can soon shoot a 40 shot cylinder out. With great ease. You never run out of charge with a springer!

Would i shoot more with a PCP than a springer? Who can say?

I often think that its not the gun,pellets, camo,knife,boots, inflatable shooting matt, etc its the person behind the gun.

If i had to shoot any one gun for the rest fo my life i think the 77 would be a hard one to beat......

 

good point on the 40 shots, ratting with a .22 falcon i had the same problem... two fills as a standard three on a bizzy night. a three littre bottles handy for filling, but to be honest the couple minutes it takes to fill is a lot easier theaan pulling th barrel every shot. i dare say i'd get used to again the second i had to use a springer.

 

try a rapid, i can get 450 shots out of a .177, but its regged and tuned to a pellet... i shoot to about 300 max so it doesnt take as much to refill each time, only had to fill a few times, but i was camped out, or the squirels were out in forse for a game of spook the troops through each others terotory lol... mayhem when you can do it, but dunt half get rid of a few.

 

a three litre bottles good for in the car, but for the same price a fill get a 12 or more litre... from a couple quid to a fiver a fill, it's not to bad.

[gurtwurz 792]

can somebody tell me if there is any weight difference in the s410 .177 and .22 calibers

cheers

 

yep, the .22's pellets weigh more

 

 

i gotta admit, since i got my eye in with the '95 i havent used the hw100 that much at all, i just love the feel of the springer, and the simplicity of chuckin some pellets in me pouch and going out for a mooch with it- just classic hunting for the sheer crack of it- ing ace!!!

 

cheers, wurz

hi wurz i was meaning the guns not the pellets lol

i'm not a pure numpty lol

 

 

just rippin the mickey john, no offence meant mate

 

cheers, wurz

[rossi_j 99]

Hi Ste,Yea mate as I said my Custom Lion was very good at close range while carrying pest control in Bosnia.It had a terrible trigger, probably the worst one I have ever used but it knocked pigeons over well enough and magpies that made home in our gun hangers.It only cost something like £60 with 3-9*32 scope and mounts too.That was in 1997 though.I feel that even a cheap chinease rifle or Spanish Gamo is ok for plinking or vermin control if you stay within the rifles capabilities. I've no doubt that the 9 or 10 ft/lb max of power that the Lion put out would kill with a very lucky shot at. 50 yards but I at that time in my air rifle shooting life wasn't up to shooting that far and have only managed to get to shoot consistantly out to longer ranges within the past 2 to 2.5 years and that's since practicing since 13.The Lion also wasn't up to that range as well buddy as stated and the scope was a standard 30/30 ret.If someone or people like you and Steve are up to achieving this range consistently with a cheaper springer then fair play to you both buddy and good on you both.I admire both your skills.Si

 

Sory dident mean to say it was consistant, its just happend on occasions, its no regular occurance

Altho its happening more and more with the 410

.atb. .ste.

[pianoman 3,584]

Hmm great thread this, with a lot of thoughtful input from everyone.

 

 

Well, I'm a spring rifle disciple.

 

Spring rifles are what I've grown up with and what I'm absolutely used to. Frankly, I bloody love them to death. Every advantage they offer has been stated here already but, for me, I love them for the fact that they have a heft that helps make their handling and accuracy so much more controllable and achievable. I really am baffled to read of some finding this weight (average 9.5lbs with scope) more than they can handle. What the chuffing Hell do some of you have for arms; Pipe Cleaners? Fit a sling and keep yourself comfortably rested on your shoot is how you manage it.

 

PCPs.. I don't know, they seem to cost a bloomin fortune for nothing more special that a well sorted and nicely run-in spring rifle cannot perform. I can hit a 5-shot, one hole group at 45 metres with my £230 10-year old HW80 FAC .22 or £400 TX200HC .177. Or my £426 sub 12ft/lb HW77. Or I can hit a 5-shot one-hole group at 45 metres with a £1,200-plus Airwolf. So what's the advantage here? Well I didn't have to fork out getting the springers charged-up from an external source like a scuba tank.

 

The best I can really say about the PCP is that they have brought accurate shooting to people who, otherwise, couldn't hit a barn door with a shotgun if their lives depended on it

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh on some but, the truth is, I've seen some headscratchingly poor hold technique that, had it been applied to a spring rifle, the shot would miss by several feet!

 

My poor long-suffering friend Nigel at Wighill Park Guns has done his level best to convert me to PCP shooting. I've had extensive shooting sessions with some bloody astonishing kit and some bloody awful looking yuck. The latest and very greatest to the entry level budget gun. Nothing among any of them convinced me I was the poorer with what I shoot with spring wise.

 

Accuracy wise, they are very good, no question. Damm good in fact. But, no better than my spring rifles are. Both will produce sub-penny piece groups at any reasonable range you can shoot to. Both will miss a 10 yard sitter because you got your scope/bore co-ordination wrong. Both are prone to the odd flyer, the odd misfit from the pellet tin.

 

The chief difference for me is the looks, handling, charging and reliability issue.

 

PCPs are lightweight ugly sticks. They feel light and flimsy. I would be too concerned about getting it snagged through a thorny bit of undergrowth in my woodland stalk. Dress them up in the finest walnut and you still come back to something that either looks like it was made from bits of a vacuum cleaner or it's giving a bloody good blow job to a black fire extinguisher! They are not as strongly, robustly well made for the astonishing costs, or why do so many PCP owners turn to specialist tuners to get a better, more efficient regulator? This should have been provided by the manufacturer for the cost he's held his hand out for! And this and other forums are full of posts and threads about faults and failures and leaks. And that's not a value for money product.

 

So would I pay the same if not, a greater sum of money for one PCP rifle, as all my spring rifles cost put together?

 

NO WAY! :no:

 

And after all this, what is the air best rifle I have ever shot with? My TX200HC and Weihrauch HW80s are amazing but, FAC tuned and thus I feel, are unfair and do not count in a debate among legal limit shooting.

 

My brand new Weihrauch HW77 .22 full length rifle :clapping: . :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

It's even better than my TX200 .22 rifle which I thought was the Rolls Royce of springers. But this HW77 is a classical masterpiece. Like a Mercedes Benz. Tuning it is going to be an additional luxury. Not a necessity.

 

I'll end my days shooting and hunting with this rifle. I wish to God I'd bought one years ago!

 

ATB

 

Simon

Edited January 13, 2011 by pianoman

[andyfr1968 772]

So then, Simon, you're not really tempted by one of those Hatstands after all??

 

I dabbled with inflatable airguns for a while but I've stayed with my springers. I only had the 410 for less than a year and to be fair, it was a nice bit of kit that didn't give any trouble but it just didn't do it for me.

 

My 90's about twelve years old now, has shot tens of thousands of pellets and is as good now as it was when it was new.

[ghillies 209]

so its down to what tick's yu boo.

 

i luved my right up untill it fell apart, the daystate harrier was way accurate, but admitidly easier to use but had problems that eventualy pixxed me off enough to just seel the thing, no doubts it could have been sorted the factry bod was git in my book...300 pound scope wuold only just zero, therefore it was workable, that means no dialing in one way, and the full ratchedt the other.. the gun went.

 

also had a left hander falcon..nice little hunter but i'm right handed, to be fair i r was old, trouble free but wouldnt hit the mark too well past 50 yards, and it was .22..lol so deperation and it got sold for a song with bottle and hose.

 

finaly got a rapid, and well... cant grumble at it at all.. 300 shots is plenty, accuracy to 82 yards on a good day.. drops what i hit nicely, the guns quiet but the impact lets it down a bit lol..cracks um good on a head shot and pops woodies like a wooden baloon bursting ..rabbit bod shots when theyre just right are no noise, the one sat next to it dunt stop chewing, my rat average is up on any springer due to less noise..

 

does me, why strugle lol.

[hunter1989 91]

hi si

 

its not that me and Ste are the best with spring rifles i say its what you are comfortable with

 

i started my hunting life with a hatsan mod60.22 then moved to a hatsan mod85x then moved to a s400.22 then to a BSA ultra then back to a s400 177 i feel that i could hit a rabbit at 45 yards just as good with a springer.Ive decided to stick with my s400 and I'm going to get another hatsan mod60 soon there only £100 an they are very good rifle and will take all UK quarry out no problem

 

atb steve

[zini 1,939]

Hi Steve,

 

Yep I fully understand what you are saying buddy, if you are truly capable of making them kind of shots with an average quality or cheap spring piston rifle and at them ranges then that’s good news buddy and I envy your skill both with a springer and a PCP buddy.

 

You both should learn to take compliments when they are given to you instead of being defensive in your replies mate.

 

I read something’s (threads) on this forum and think to myself “that’s rubbish or total bullsh-t etc†I know this as I have enough experience in hunting and shooting to know this, through my experience in the military as a marksman and personal life as a shooter.

 

I have either also tried it myself or seen it tried over the past 25 years that I have been shooting and know what is real and what is make believe or a fantasy in someone’s mind etc.

 

When these posts pop up from time to time I read them, smile to myself and sometimes laugh, but usually make a polite reply, hoping that others with experience will see through them too, after all there isn’t any need to be nasty and rude as long as I know the score myself and take it with a pinch of salt even though no one likes to be made a fool of.

 

Yes sometimes I do get hot headed but so does everyone I suppose sometimes at some point. I usually apologise straight after and make it openly so have nothing to hide to anyone.

 

I admit mate I have thought that some of your posts have been exaggerated a bit and so have others as they have spoken to me via PM thinking the same things, but after speaking off line to Davy etc who I class as a good friend and trust who I know does have the skill, I have come to the conclusion that you are a genuine bloke in your threads and do what you say you do. You also come with a high recommendation buddy.

 

Some though on here do live in a fantasy world and there is no getting away from it. I only say this as it as taken me a long time with lots of hard work, ballistic theory and practice in shooting to manage what I can today with a springer.

 

A PCP is another kettle of fish and even a new shooter someone who as never ever shot before can gain good results with a PCP after a few hours of tuition. I know this because I taught Laura in about 3 hours and she beat me in the HFT comp by 3 points with my r10 while I was using a HW 35 springer.

 

I just cant get my head around how people can shoot that accurate with a average quality springer and hunt to them ranges (daft ranges 50 to 60 yards) in some cases (I’ve read in the past) about 2 months of shooting experience.

 

It’s not just the case of picking up the rifle, loading it and shooting a 50 yard bunny, job done. What about the wind and applying the correct wind compensation, applying correct follow through that a springer needs so much, correct elevation on the shot (inclined and declined compensation) and the correct aim point on the scopes reticule.

 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t class myself as a brilliant shot (far from it) but I understand the theory of what the pellet is doing at certain points along its trajectory and how to get the best from my equipment to ensure that I make the best shot possible for the particular opportunity so do pretty well that way.

 

Seriously though buddy shooting what I would class as a average spring piston rifle brand (SMK or Gamo) lets face the facts mate they are not Air Arms or Weihrauch brands, and grouping well at 35 metres like Ste said is very impressive shooting to say the least buddy and I really do think that you have a special ability that you should continue to work at mate.

 

I myself have tried on my rat shooting permission with my mates SMK 19 springer to shoot a good group at 25 metres (a good group to me is a 1 hole group made by say 5 pellets making 1 hole say a ¼ or ½ inch in diameter) as I wanted to add it to my new DVD about 3 months before Christmas when the weather was nice here in Germany and there was no wind.

 

I tried 3 quality brands of .22 pellets, Accupels, Air Arms and RWS Super Domes and ended up sacking it as I could only shoot a group with the best diameter of about 1 inch at 25 metres which people would laugh at on the DVD if I added it.

 

Well that’s me finished now, its good to be honest and I have mate.

 

Like I said buddy, learn to take a compliment buddy.

 

I’ll hopefully see you and Ste at Davys meet if I get the chance to come (but its looking doubtful I’m afraid) and we can have a beer together and do a little bit of a shooting together at some targets and you can show me your shooting technique with a springer. If its easy to adjust to I may even try using it myself.

 

Kind regards

 

Si

[pianoman 3,584]

So then, Simon, you're not really tempted by one of those Hatstands after all??

 

I dabbled with inflatable airguns for a while but I've stayed with my springers. I only had the 410 for less than a year and to be fair, it was a nice bit of kit that didn't give any trouble but it just didn't do it for me.

 

My 90's about twelve years old now, has shot tens of thousands of pellets and is as good now as it was when it was new.

No Andy mate. I'm very happy with my COATRACK HW77! :laugh:

 

Interesting that you had an S410 pcp for less than a whole year. That's a situation I saw coming with me and PCPs. I really wanted to like them but, I always immediately felt that they were incapable of absorbing something of me into them, the way a recoiling spring rifle can. You could put my spring rifles in a roomful of identical ones and I could pick mine out blindfolded. I just don't get that same sense of connection with a pcp.

 

ATB

 

Simon

[hunter1989 91]

Hi Steve,

 

Yep I fully understand what you are saying buddy, if you are truly capable of making them kind of shots with an average quality or cheap spring piston rifle and at them ranges then that’s good news buddy and I envy your skill both with a springer and a PCP buddy.

 

You both should learn to take compliments when they are given to you instead of being defensive in your replies mate.

 

I read something’s (threads) on this forum and think to myself “that’s rubbish or total bullsh-t etc” I know this as I have enough experience in hunting and shooting to know this, through my experience in the military as a marksman and personal life as a shooter.

 

I have either also tried it myself or seen it tried over the past 25 years that I have been shooting and know what is real and what is make believe or a fantasy in someone’s mind etc.

 

When these posts pop up from time to time I read them, smile to myself and sometimes laugh, but usually make a polite reply, hoping that others with experience will see through them too, after all there isn’t any need to be nasty and rude as long as I know the score myself and take it with a pinch of salt even though no one likes to be made a fool of.

 

Yes sometimes I do get hot headed but so does everyone I suppose sometimes at some point. I usually apologise straight after and make it openly so have nothing to hide to anyone.

 

I admit mate I have thought that some of your posts have been exaggerated a bit and so have others as they have spoken to me via PM thinking the same things, but after speaking off line to Davy etc who I class as a good friend and trust who I know does have the skill, I have come to the conclusion that you are a genuine bloke in your threads and do what you say you do. You also come with a high recommendation buddy.

 

Some though on here do live in a fantasy world and there is no getting away from it. I only say this as it as taken me a long time with lots of hard work, ballistic theory and practice in shooting to manage what I can today with a springer.

 

A PCP is another kettle of fish and even a new shooter someone who as never ever shot before can gain good results with a PCP after a few hours of tuition. I know this because I taught Laura in about 3 hours and she beat me in the HFT comp by 3 points with my r10 while I was using a HW 35 springer.

 

I just cant get my head around how people can shoot that accurate with a average quality springer and hunt to them ranges (daft ranges 50 to 60 yards) in some cases (I’ve read in the past) about 2 months of shooting experience.

 

It’s not just the case of picking up the rifle, loading it and shooting a 50 yard bunny, job done. What about the wind and applying the correct wind compensation, applying correct follow through that a springer needs so much, correct elevation on the shot (inclined and declined compensation) and the correct aim point on the scopes reticule.

 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t class myself as a brilliant shot (far from it) but I understand the theory of what the pellet is doing at certain points along its trajectory and how to get the best from my equipment to ensure that I make the best shot possible for the particular opportunity so do pretty well that way.

 

Seriously though buddy shooting what I would class as a average spring piston rifle brand (SMK or Gamo) lets face the facts mate they are not Air Arms or Weihrauch brands, and grouping well at 35 metres like Ste said is very impressive shooting to say the least buddy and I really do think that you have a special ability that you should continue to work at mate.

 

I myself have tried on my rat shooting permission with my mates SMK 19 springer to shoot a good group at 25 metres (a good group to me is a 1 hole group made by say 5 pellets making 1 hole say a ¼ or ½ inch in diameter) as I wanted to add it to my new DVD about 3 months before Christmas when the weather was nice here in Germany and there was no wind.

 

I tried 3 quality brands of .22 pellets, Accupels, Air Arms and RWS Super Domes and ended up sacking it as I could only shoot a group with the best diameter of about 1 inch at 25 metres which people would laugh at on the DVD if I added it.

 

Well that’s me finished now, its good to be honest and I have mate.

 

Like I said buddy, learn to take a compliment buddy.

 

I’ll hopefully see you and Ste at Davys meet if I get the chance to come (but its looking doubtful I’m afraid) and we can have a beer together and do a little bit of a shooting together at some targets and you can show me your shooting technique with a springer. If its easy to adjust to I may even try using it myself.

 

Kind regards

 

Si

 

 

hi si

 

well i do agree to some parts

 

as with the springer I'm only being honest buddy i no allot of people on here never believe me but i will prove it now I'm buying a smkx19 next month and will filming me shooting rabbits at 40-50 yards no rest at all,

 

I'm sick of people on here (not you Si honestly) thinking cause they own a hw100 air wolf ect thinking there the best preformed pcp out there well in my eyes there no different than a aa or bsa just well over priced.

 

also i will say this as Ive been meaning to for a while,when people say i got a daystate or hw100 and the accuracy brilliant or i have a air arms and that's accurate there not its how you shoot it an how you handle it that makes it accurate.

 

people must think i no nothing regarding rifles e.c.t but i studied a lot before i brought one and didn't jump in the deep up by buying a pcp first.

 

I'm sick of seeing people on here thinking they no it all when no one will never no everything about hunting as there always something new to learn.

 

I'm not that skilled buddy Ive but learnt my tactics and skills from the likes of you,davy phantom and many more.

 

i never lie about my shooting abilities buddy and Ive never posted this before but Ive took a crow at .1 yards with a body shot before but why should i post it to get back stabbed mate

 

Ive made allot of true mates on here including your self Si but also meet a few ass hole no names mentioned.

 

at the end of the day I'm not fussed what people believe or not as Ive meet allot of people on here in person that can vouch for me matey.

 

i love this site and all the good people i meet on it but I'm beginning to think i might join another site who may believe what i say matey.I'm only young 21 but I'm very mature and do take hunting ex stream any never break the rules

 

buts as for people PMing you saying I'm over exaggerating that's wrong mate if anyone has a problem with me pm me and i will answer the best i can,quite frankly i don't care what them people think matey but that's just me

 

i give my respect to the likes or you and Davy as you have helped me out more than i needed

 

i no none of you believe me regarding my 50 yards rabbit with a smk but when i prove it what will happen then

 

at this time in moment I'm going though a really ruff time mate,and don't need this crap at all,

 

from now on i will not post any nights out but will post videos of me taking rabbits with a springer and also fit my scope cam and will prove it with a range finder that's Ste has just brought.

 

none of this is aimed at you Si don't feel it is matey as its not but this is my true side mate I'm sure your understand bud

 

atb steve

[darren watson 14]

another valid point someone raised on here i completely agree with is that springers do kind of force you to learn good fieldcraft. Only having one pellet at a time and having to make it count does encourage one to be stealthy and know the quarry you're after. i sometimes think practising the art of creeping up on stuff is just as enjoyable as the shooting.

[J Darcy 5,871]

Hunter, Chill out 'ol lad....Its only the internet matey. Don't worry if people dont believe you, as long as you know then thats all that matters. Just for the record i have seen rabbits taken over 60 yards with a sub-11ft/lb airgun. Head shot, stone dead.Range measured with a range finder.

I have seen woodpigeons taken at long range with springers,as well as practically every other quarry species. just think back 20 years to when they weren't really many PCP's about. What did we kill the big bags with then? A springer.....

[hunter1989 91]

another valid point someone raised on here i completely agree with is that springers do kind of force you to learn good fieldcraft. Only having one pellet at a time and having to make it count does encourage one to be stealthy and know the quarry you're after. i sometimes think practising the art of creeping up on stuff is just as enjoyable as the shooting.

 

 

hi darren

 

great point and 100% agree with yu matey.

 

:thumbs:

 

 

atb steve

[hunter1989 91]

Hunter, Chill out 'ol lad....Its only the internet matey. Don't worry if people dont believe you, as long as you know then thats all that matters. Just for the record i have seen rabbits taken over 60 yards with a sub-11ft/lb airgun. Head shot, stone dead.Range measured with a range finder.

I have seen woodpigeons taken at long range with springers,as well as practically every other quarry species. just think back 20 years to when they weren't really many PCP's about. What did we kill the big bags with then? A springer.....

 

 

hi darcy

 

yeah fair point sorry lads no harm ment.

 

its only the net like you said bud

 

just thought i would say it how it is

 

atb steve