mackay 3,044 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Its been a long time since I ,ve enjoyed a thread The points you make lab are good ones but a collie blooded lurcher is capable of them, regarding chasing deer, I'd agree it might be a problem if the dog was used in the pursuit of deer and was out of sight of the owner. Not a problem if your dog (like a gundog) was broken to deer as it is sheep. There's a great deal of similarities between an all round lurcher and a gundog, obedience, nose and handler control being the obvious ones, there are lurcher owners who put the time and effort into their dogs like gundog owners (more in a lot of cases) to have an anmal to be proud of. Over the years I've done all aspects of lurcherwork my favourite being walking rough ground or moorland and letting my dogs hunt and catch game and on many occasions there was little actual chasing with the majority of game caught being lifted from the seat or very soon after resulting in decent numbers, that's only a step away from using a gundog the difference being their task is to flush the game so that the owner might shoot it. On this type of ground if I wished I could probably put more game in the bag with a gundog that pegged game than many lurchers. At the end of the day I think there might be too many contributing factors to come to a decisive conclusion the main one being the makeup of the lurcher for where it is certainly true the majority of lurchers couldn't do the job of a gundog, in many cases it shouldn't be capable of doing it by virtue of its breeding. . 2 Quote Link to post
Mooch. 177 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 It mostly comes down to training and what you want the dog to do. Like I said, lurchers are bred predominantly for speed and that speed would be wasted on a shoot where the sport is to shoot the game, not course it. If I were to partake in a bit if rough shooting, a bit of ferreting and a bit if lamping I'd get a lurcher, but I dont. I pick up on a 300-400 birds-a-day driven shoot so I'll stick to labs for now. 1 Quote Link to post
Lab 10,979 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Its been a long time since I ,ve enjoyed a thread The points you make lab are good ones but a collie blooded lurcher is capable of them, regarding chasing deer, I'd agree it might be a problem if the dog was used in the pursuit of deer and was out of sight of the owner. Not a problem if your dog (like a gundog) was broken to deer as it is sheep. There's a great deal of similarities between an all round lurcher and a gundog, obedience, nose and handler control being the obvious ones, there are lurcher owners who put the time and effort into their dogs like gundog owners (more in a lot of cases) to have an anmal to be proud of. Over the years I've done all aspects of lurcherwork my favourite being walking rough ground or moorland and letting my dogs hunt and catch game and on many occasions there was little actual chasing with the majority of game caught being lifted from the seat or very soon after resulting in decent numbers, that's only a step away from using a gundog the difference being their task is to flush the game so that the owner might shoot it. On this type of ground if I wished I could probably put more game in the bag with a gundog that pegged game than many lurchers. At the end of the day I think there might be too many contributing factors to come to a decisive conclusion the main one being the makeup of the lurcher for where it is certainly true the majority of lurchers couldn't do the job of a gundog, in many cases it shouldn't be capable of doing it by virtue of its breeding. . Your quite correct there mate. The bottom line to me is i dont reckon someone would want a lurcher that didnt use what qualities it was bred for and instead be brought up like a gundog. Lets face it you may very well have this dog for 10-15 years and thats a long time just to prove a point. As i've stated many times i'd love to have a Lurcher and i would love the challenge of training it to see if i could get it up to a standard i'd be happy with without loosing any qualities of the running dog. I doubt it very much though as my training techniques would go out the window when "certain game" presented itself................"GET ON LAD!!!!!".............. Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tell you what the gundog boys don't like is when my bitch beats theirs by a mile in the scurry comps LOL. Quote Link to post
Lab 10,979 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tell you what the gundog boys don't like is when my bitch beats theirs by a mile in the scurry comps LOL. Thats for pups........ Quote Link to post
Mooch. 177 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tell you what the gundog boys don't like is when my bitch beats theirs by a mile in the scurry comps LOL. Don't start this again, we've nearly put this matter to bed!! There's several miles of difference between a gundog field trial and a pet dog scurry. You don't see many FTChs competing in scurrys. Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I know the difference a very good mate of mine is an A panel judge and top trainer and obviously a lurcher couldn't live with a top ftch dog in a ftch competition BUT the scurry event is getting bigger and bigger in country fairs and if you wait until the last minute to enter you can almost here the guy in the lead crying when your lurcher covers the ground 5 times quicker than his dog did LOL ...... 1 Quote Link to post
MOO 730 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lets throw this into the mix, what does a gundog actually do that is so hard and that a well bred lurcher is incapable of??. Find game, I would expect a lurcher to find game.. Flush game, as above but obviously is required to catch it rather than flush it . Drop to shot my lurchers did or rather could if that's what I wished..My preference would be that they pinned it before it went anywhere, obviously not a desirable trait in a gundog. Retrieve, again a quality I would insist on in a lurcher, and wouldn't tax a well bred lurcher.. .The debate could go on forever, for every wayward useless lurcher I've seen, I've seen a gundog the same, we've came full circle here, so a question to any gundog owner, what do you actually think a gundog could do that a well bred lurcher couldn't??. Swim out 100yards in tidal water on a stormy freezing cold december morning and retrieve geese and ducks Quote Link to post
Mooch. 177 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I know the difference a very good mate of mine is an A panel judge and top trainer and obviously a lurcher couldn't live with a top ftch dog in a ftch competition BUT the scurry event is getting bigger and bigger in country fairs and if you wait until the last minute to enter you can almost here the guy in the lead crying when your lurcher covers the ground 5 times quicker than his dog did LOL ...... Now you're straying into fair and unfair competition. Of course a lurcher will beat a lab in a straight forward dash and retrieve but is that fair competition? No, of course not. I think lurchers should be banned from Gundog scurries, they've got their own races. Entering a lurcher against regular gundogs is like entering a F1 car into a go-kart race, everyone knows who'll win and no one enjoys it except for one smug b*stard. Very un-sporting. Edited February 21, 2012 by Mooch. Quote Link to post
Lab 10,979 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I know the difference a very good mate of mine is an A panel judge and top trainer and obviously a lurcher couldn't live with a top ftch dog in a ftch competition BUT the scurry event is getting bigger and bigger in country fairs and if you wait until the last minute to enter you can almost here the guy in the lead crying when your lurcher covers the ground 5 times quicker than his dog did LOL ...... Right i'd like to place 5 dummies 200 yards away and 200 yards apart in cover of some sort. If your dog beats mine i'd take your for a pint. If it does it 5 times faster i'll buy you the pub.... Oh and mines is an Ice cold Tennets............. 1 Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well you would definitely owe me a pint ..... The pub I dunno depends how my bitch is on the day and how fat your labs are OL ..... Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I know the difference a very good mate of mine is an A panel judge and top trainer and obviously a lurcher couldn't live with a top ftch dog in a ftch competition BUT the scurry event is getting bigger and bigger in country fairs and if you wait until the last minute to enter you can almost here the guy in the lead crying when your lurcher covers the ground 5 times quicker than his dog did LOL ...... Now you're straying into fair and unfair competition. Of course a lurcher will beat a lab in a straight forward dash and retrieve but is that fair competition? No, of course not. I think lurchers should be banned from Gundog scurries, they've got their own races. Entering a lurcher against regular gundogs is like entering a F1 car into a go-kart race, everyone knows who'll win and no one enjoys it except for one smug b*stard. Very un-sporting. LOL it is called a scurry competition not a scurry lets all be jolly fair what what ....... Quote Link to post
mackay 3,044 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lets throw this into the mix, what does a gundog actually do that is so hard and that a well bred lurcher is incapable of??. Find game, I would expect a lurcher to find game.. Flush game, as above but obviously is required to catch it rather than flush it . Drop to shot my lurchers did or rather could if that's what I wished..My preference would be that they pinned it before it went anywhere, obviously not a desirable trait in a gundog. Retrieve, again a quality I would insist on in a lurcher, and wouldn't tax a well bred lurcher.. .The debate could go on forever, for every wayward useless lurcher I've seen, I've seen a gundog the same, we've came full circle here, so a question to any gundog owner, what do you actually think a gundog could do that a well bred lurcher couldn't??. Swim out 100yards in tidal water on a stormy freezing cold december morning and retrieve geese and ducks Could do, I've a lab here no bigger or chunkier than a lot of collie greyhounds, her coats no denser, so we should assume she's not capable of doing it. Quote Link to post
Lab 10,979 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well you would definitely owe me a pint ..... The pub I dunno depends how my bitch is on the day and how fat your labs are OL ..... Pretty much your bog standard big fat pet labs mate.................. Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well you would definitely owe me a pint ..... The pub I dunno depends how my bitch is on the day and how fat your labs are OL ..... Pretty much your bog standard big fat pet labs mate.................. LOL then you owe me a pub Lol ........ Quote Link to post
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