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#1 wetdogsmell

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:13 pm

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Originally Posted by The Paws
TippFan77 - I think in colleges/PHDs etc are very interested in this. I say they would have to research first why are these endemic species are in crisis! I would be interested to help - They are declining and I am delighted they are alerting everyone from rte news and hopefully some one like us who would to take part of this.

Perhaps www.biology.ie might help? or a national wildlife website - they record the locations/where last seen/ population etc (privately of course or the irish hare will be totally wiped out by usual hunters etc!)

all the best!

As I understand it, the Irish Hare is under pressure from loss of habitat due to destruction of hedgerow and the effects of monoculturual farming...once growth drops below a certain height the hare may as well be in the desert.

There is also the question of Capture Myopathy, a stress-related condition...a hare is never the same again after being captured by man. For example, hares were captured a few years ago in Co. Meath and transported from Mosney to Bull Island to replenish hare stocks there...most of these hares died within days of reaching their new venue...presumably from the stress arising from capture and transportation.

Now consider that between 7000 and 10000 hares per year are captured for use in hare coursing events. Most comment on this relates to the pursuit of the hare on coursing day by a pair of greyhounds...but the hare has already gone through an ordeal before he reaches that point...he is netted, placed in a small box, transported (over varying distances), held in captivity for up to six weeks...

After coursing, hares that survive the ordeal (i.e. are not struck or mauled by the dogs) are released back into the wild...but the question is...in what condition. What becomes of them afterwards, bearing in mind the fate of the Mosney hares on Bull Island and the effects of Capture Myopathy?

Yes...a study of all this would be immensely interesting...

#2 terrier410

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:23 pm

usual leftie cack the trouble is people believe what they read and think study done by college is done properly anyone can make figures say what they want them too and i suppose they will be manhandling hares also but in the name of science its ok fck em all!!!!!!

#3 Malt

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:45 pm

After coursing, hares that survive the ordeal (i.e. are not struck or mauled by the dogs) are released back into the wild...but the question is...in what condition.


How on earth has the hare survived in good mental health for hundreds of thousands of years with foxes, wolves and what ever else chasing after them? The hare has evolved to run away from predators on a regular basis, it wouldn't have lasted long if it had a mental breakdown every time something targeted it for lunch... :no:

#4 Terrier man

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:34 pm

They will pull out all the stops till where as f****d as the uk with laws...

#5 Ideation

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:04 pm


After coursing, hares that survive the ordeal (i.e. are not struck or mauled by the dogs) are released back into the wild...but the question is...in what condition.


How on earth has the hare survived in good mental health for hundreds of thousands of years with foxes, wolves and what ever else chasing after them? The hare has evolved to run away from predators on a regular basis, it wouldn't have lasted long if it had a mental breakdown every time something targeted it for lunch... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


I don't necessarily agree with the bloke but that's not what he was saying. I think he meant that although a number of hares are not killed during coursing, and go back to the wild, their experience of being captured, transported, released and chased could be sufficient to cause them to die at some later point as apparently happened with the hares on Bull Island. Something more to do with being held in captivity for a period than being chased.

#6 neil cooney

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 07:04 pm

Nothing we haven't heard before from that Anti scum.
If you were to run ,say, a 64 dog coursing meet you would start catching your hares several weeks before the meet. The hares would be handled when being taken out of the net and then handled again when wormed and dosed for coccidiosis back at the coursing field. After coursing they would be handled again before being released back where they were caught. Then they would carry on with there lives. I know because I've watched them.
As a matter of fact this was proven in research carried out on hares released back by a club in Northern Ireland, Dungannon I think.
Hares were fitted with transmittors and studied 'till the batteries ran out. One hare didn't leave an area of a few hundred yards while being studied.
All these hares would have been handled expertly by members of the coursing clubs and not clumsily by those that haven't a clue.
I remember the hares in Mosney. There would be groups of 50 and 60 hares sitting together and when you walked towards them they just moved to one side like a flock of sheep. They were grazing on the lush grass of some sports fields which would be a far cry from the beach sand and grasses of the Bull Island ,Co Dublin.
It's no secret that the rabbits and hares of the Bull Island have always been un-normally small and runty. So to take a perfectly healthy load of hares and dump them there doesn't make sense.
People have funny ideas as to what's cruel and what's not.

Edited by neil cooney, 25 August 2010 - 07:06 pm.


#7 droid

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 07:33 pm

Good little piece in the new series of 'Coast', BBC.

About an island off the West Coast of Ireland where the hares are flourishing.....because of the Coursing Clubs.

Edited by droid, 25 August 2010 - 07:33 pm.


#8 Leeview

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:40 pm

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Now consider that between 7000 and 10000 hares per year are captured for use in hare coursing events. Most comment on this relates to the pursuit of the hare on coursing day by a pair of greyhounds...but the hare has already gone through an ordeal before he reaches that point...he is netted, placed in a small box, transported (over varying distances), held in captivity for up to six weeks...

After coursing, hares that survive the ordeal (i.e. are not struck or mauled by the dogs) are released back into the wild...but the question is...in what condition. What becomes of them afterwards, bearing in mind the fate of the Mosney hares on Bull Island and the effects of Capture Myopathy?

Yes...a study of all this would be immensely interesting...
[/quote]
Having netted hares over many seasons pre-ban Id like to enhance on these comments,"placed in a small box" thats purposefully made to safely transport the hare causing minimum stress.
"held in captivity for up to 6 weeks" this is after the hare is checked over by a vet innoculated and dosed(as Neil Cooney pointed out) now this "captivity" is usually the enclosure inside a horse race track so quite a large area in itself :thumbs: there food is supplemented, they are watched over against attack from foxes and in some cases dogs :whistling: they are exercised so they know where the soughs are and are generally cosseted until the time comes and they are realeased back on to the land they were netted on.
Please note that this applies only to Park Coursing in Eire :thumbs: the Open coursing pre ban in England, Scotland and Wales the hares were driven on their land never from enclosures
Y.I.S Leeview

#9 Ideation

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:21 pm

Why don't folk just course them where they are? Not knocking it just never been to Ireland so don't quite get it? Surely it's a bigger test if the hare is in its natural environment / home???

#10 Leeview

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:59 pm

Why don't folk just course them where they are? Not knocking it just never been to Ireland so don't quite get it? Surely it's a bigger test if the hare is in its natural environment / home???

Park coursing basically is all about speed in a straight line going uphill, very few turns at a meeting. As I said the hares are exercised up the Park to know where the sough(escape) is so they do know the ground they re run on :thumbs:
Y.I.S Leeview

#11 neil cooney

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:02 am

Why don't folk just course them where they are? Not knocking it just never been to Ireland so don't quite get it? Surely it's a bigger test if the hare is in its natural environment / home???

They are. In Ireland we have park coursing and open coursing. Same rules apply but in park coursing the greyhounds must be muzzeled, and not in open. Although the same rules apply in park coursing the dog that wins the run up usually wins the course. Athough this can differ from judge to judge. When I see the same type of judgeing used in open coursing it makes my blood boil.
A lot of the Open C.C.s are struggling nowadays as poaching is a growing problem (it's illegal to use lurchers to hunt hares in the R.O.I.) but a bigger problem IMO is the ever growing buzzard population. Scavangers???? Yeh right, if the buzzard doesn't kill it's quarry then there's a lot of leverets dieing and then being found by them.
If your a coursing fan and have never been to Ireland it's worth going to the big meets in the Munster area particularly Clonmel to see how massive and popular coursing is in Ireland.
Personally, give me a fit hare on his own ground giving the two running machines behind him a hard course of several turns before hitting 5th gear and leaving them behind over a park meeting anytime.

#12 Richie10

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:12 am


Why don't folk just course them where they are? Not knocking it just never been to Ireland so don't quite get it? Surely it's a bigger test if the hare is in its natural environment / home???

They are. In Ireland we have park coursing and open coursing. Same rules apply but in park coursing the greyhounds must be muzzeled, and not in open. Although the same rules apply in park coursing the dog that wins the run up usually wins the course. Athough this can differ from judge to judge. When I see the same type of judgeing used in open coursing it makes my blood boil.
A lot of the Open C.C.s are struggling nowadays as poaching is a growing problem (it's illegal to use lurchers to hunt hares in the R.O.I.) but a bigger problem IMO is the ever growing buzzard population. Scavangers???? Yeh right, if the buzzard doesn't kill it's quarry then there's a lot of leverets dieing and then being found by them.
If your a coursing fan and have never been to Ireland it's worth going to the big meets in the Munster area particularly Clonmel to see how massive and popular coursing is in Ireland.
Personally, give me a fit hare on his own ground giving the two running machines behind him a hard course of several turns before hitting 5th gear and leaving them behind over a park meeting anytime.


I'm guessing poaching wouldn't be such a problem if coursing with Lurchers was allowed.

#13 anagallis_arvensis

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:15 am

About an island off the West Coast of Ireland where the hares are flourishing.....because of the Coursing Clubs.


A good point but its worth doing some research to look at the effects of capture and release. If you love the sport there's no harm in knowing the science about whats happening is there. That writing above will be someones interpretation of the original science. We have no idea if the people who did the science are pro or anti. A good hare population is crucial for coursing and the reduction in numbers is a worry, no doubt the full picture of research shows that coursing has very little effect compared to habitat loss. Just as big game hunting in Africa is being used to help the wildlife the same can apply to coursing.

a bigger problem IMO is the ever growing buzzard population


maybe, ut thats only a problems because the hares and the buzzards are concentrated into small areas, with a bigger habitat and a bigger population size it would be insignificant.

Edited by anagallis_arvensis, 26 August 2010 - 09:17 am.


#14 neil cooney

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:21 am



Why don't folk just course them where they are? Not knocking it just never been to Ireland so don't quite get it? Surely it's a bigger test if the hare is in its natural environment / home???

They are. In Ireland we have park coursing and open coursing. Same rules apply but in park coursing the greyhounds must be muzzeled, and not in open. Although the same rules apply in park coursing the dog that wins the run up usually wins the course. Athough this can differ from judge to judge. When I see the same type of judgeing used in open coursing it makes my blood boil.
A lot of the Open C.C.s are struggling nowadays as poaching is a growing problem (it's illegal to use lurchers to hunt hares in the R.O.I.) but a bigger problem IMO is the ever growing buzzard population. Scavangers???? Yeh right, if the buzzard doesn't kill it's quarry then there's a lot of leverets dieing and then being found by them.
If your a coursing fan and have never been to Ireland it's worth going to the big meets in the Munster area particularly Clonmel to see how massive and popular coursing is in Ireland.
Personally, give me a fit hare on his own ground giving the two running machines behind him a hard course of several turns before hitting 5th gear and leaving them behind over a park meeting anytime.


I'm guessing poaching wouldn't be such a problem if coursing with Lurchers was allowed.

It wouldn't make a difference. Coursing with lurchers is openly carried out in Ireland as if it was legal anyway.

#15 DeanD

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:53 am

a bigger problem IMO is the ever growing buzzard population. Scavangers???? Yeh right, if the buzzard doesn't kill it's quarry then there's a lot of leverets dieing and then being found by them.


Are the buzzards protected over there? They are considered "birds of prey" here so they are protected, I don't agree with protecting them, they are becoming thick as fleas because of it. And I agree that they take live quarry at times, particularly if they have young in the nest. jmo...




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