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Pinning a deer


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#31 tommydeer

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:18 pm

Before DMQ was invented, before there was a "best practice", before there was a diagram on a website...what did you do!?

Some of the things being said just dont make sense. From my point of view...if your lining up a shot to pin the animal you need to be accurate, so why not go for a neck shot of some sort(low/high) you'll still drop it on the spot if thats your whole intention.

And for all your moans...if your good enough, there is nothing wrong with a proper decent heart/lung shot....the shot we've all probably been taught from day 1.
Especially you John, you rave about your dog...surely then you present yourself an opportunity to use it and show it off! :clapper:

In all seriousness though...its another pointless thread! :wallbash:

#32 john robbo

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:48 am


Martin I think if you look again at it to hit the red region i.e the heart on the quartering shots you will infact pinn 1 leg either on entry or exit.(I can see at least 6 deer on the clock where a leg is pinned)
regards john


They may well be pinned John,but,that is a side issue,as the shot is taken to travel through the vitals mate,not to break the shoulder.

the point of any shot is to travel through a vital organ isn't it.?????????????

#33 wireviz

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:06 am

Attached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsAttached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsThe point in my opinion of any shot is to kill the animal as quickly as you can. Areas i work are some what sensitive and i cannot have a 60 100 mtr runner because i hit the heart low or put it through the lungs. I need it on the grass were i shot the deer and the shot that will do that is a forward shoulder shot. Neck shots to me can cause runners of wounded deer and that is not acceptable. You ask is lev2 the be all and end all no it is not it is best practice and that has been formulated by 100,s and 100,s of professional stalkers over the years .But has only recently been written down.

Edited by wireviz, 18 May 2010 - 08:11 am.


#34 stalkerboydy

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:01 am

Attached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsAttached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsThe point in my opinion of any shot is to kill the animal as quickly as you can. Areas i work are some what sensitive and i cannot have a 60 100 mtr runner because i hit the heart low or put it through the lungs. I need it on the grass were i shot the deer and the shot that will do that is a forward shoulder shot. Neck shots to me can cause runners of wounded deer and that is not acceptable. You ask is lev2 the be all and end all no it is not it is best practice and that has been formulated by 100,s and 100,s of professional stalkers over the years .But has only recently been written down.


Make's sence to me. :clapper:

#35 tommydeer

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:24 am

Hand on heart (excuse the pun) but i honestly believe that the diagram you've put up has the heart too far forward.

and if you need an aid in order to know where you should be putting the bullet..i'll maybe stick to my own theorys.

#36 martin

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:52 pm

Tommy, you are right mate the heart is far too forward in that pic,and,if that is the pic that is what helps you sleep at night Wireviz,then I can understand why you take the pinning shot over a neck or a boiler shot,but,you can only try to fool others,and,one thing for sure is you cannot fool yourself,so sweet dreams.............
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#37 martin

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:55 pm



Martin I think if you look again at it to hit the red region i.e the heart on the quartering shots you will infact pinn 1 leg either on entry or exit.(I can see at least 6 deer on the clock where a leg is pinned)
regards john


They may well be pinned John,but,that is a side issue,as the shot is taken to travel through the vitals mate,not to break the shoulder.

the point of any shot is to travel through a vital organ isn't it.?????????????


It most definitely is John,but,a pinning shot has NO vitals in line mate,unless it is quartered!!!!!!!
Unless of course you are going by the same biological pic that Wireviz has put up.

#38 v-max

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:07 pm

Here is my 10p worth & with alot of deer to my name i have never pinned intentionaly & is a shot i can not stand or like to see. If i see an anchored/pinned deer i make my view felt to the guest & even high light this before stalking as it is a practice i aint seen in a while. This is MHO on the matter & if i become a DMQ2 AW i will let it knowen i do not wish to see such practice pinning/anchoring its a no,no from me.
John Rambo i like your videos & what you put up alot of the time but as a DMQ2 AW & telling to do this i am shocked & the same when you mention taking it higher & doing the spine in. I am in for a good clean carcase & kill & hate to see a beast shot pollaxed/haunched etc as it makes me sick to waste the venison. As i mentioned before with you about you having to tell someone doing there level 2 stalk & you had to tell them to shot im lost. to me someone doing there level 2 should be up to scratch doing said test in my eyes even on unkowen ground. I feel you should only mention that the deer is ia a safe position not tell the candidate shoot it now.
I do not wish to fall out on the matter but make it clear i am not a pinned/anchor man nor would i tell a candidate to shoot thats up to him to work the deer. This test is for experianced people & theres more to deer managment/work other than shooting them.

Edited by v-max, 18 May 2010 - 02:08 pm.


#39 tommydeer

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:27 pm

v-max :clapper: :notworthy: :thumbs:

#40 riohog

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:35 pm

Attached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsAttached File  Vital-organs.jpg   63.48KB   19 downloadsThe point in my opinion of any shot is to kill the animal as quickly as you can. Areas i work are some what sensitive and i cannot have a 60 100 mtr runner because i hit the heart low or put it through the lungs. I need it on the grass were i shot the deer and the shot that will do that is a forward shoulder shot. Neck shots to me can cause runners of wounded deer and that is not acceptable. You ask is lev2 the be all and end all no it is not it is best practice and that has been formulated by 100,s and 100,s of professional stalkers over the years .But has only recently been written down.

well i hope you never shoot a deer in the chest ,, cos according to that picture the shot will miss the heart !! if i was you id get a new picture /or neck shoot them !! :whistling: why on earth anyone would intensionally shoot a deer through the shoulder is deond me .. just knackers good meat for no good reason .. sudgest you get some practice on paper before you go out again ;)

Edited by riohog, 18 May 2010 - 03:00 pm.


#41 mj robson

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:14 pm

Hand on heart (excuse the pun) but i honestly believe that the diagram you've put up has the heart too far forward.


That's the first thing I thought when I saw that picture.

Mark.

#42 john robbo

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:56 pm

Here is my 10p worth & with alot of deer to my name i have never pinned intentionaly & is a shot i can not stand or like to see. If i see an anchored/pinned deer i make my view felt to the guest & even high light this before stalking as it is a practice i aint seen in a while. This is MHO on the matter & if i become a DMQ2 AW i will let it knowen i do not wish to see such practice pinning/anchoring its a no,no from me.
John Rambo i like your videos & what you put up alot of the time but as a DMQ2 AW & telling to do this i am shocked & the same when you mention taking it higher & doing the spine in. I am in for a good clean carcase & kill & hate to see a beast shot pollaxed/haunched etc as it makes me sick to waste the venison. As i mentioned before with you about you having to tell someone doing there level 2 stalk & you had to tell them to shot im lost. to me someone doing there level 2 should be up to scratch doing said test in my eyes even on unkowen ground. I feel you should only mention that the deer is ia a safe position not tell the candidate shoot it now.
I do not wish to fall out on the matter but make it clear i am not a pinned/anchor man nor would i tell a candidate to shoot thats up to him to work the deer. This test is for experianced people & theres more to deer managment/work other than shooting them.

Well if you went to a re-brief like I have just been to. We are allowed to tell a candidate while on a dsc2 stalk in as much as show them the boundries and obviously stepping in if a dangerous shot is about to be taken. Also it is accepable to tell a canditate it is safe to shoot when there is any doubt. Me and the system see no problem with this it is impossible for someone to come to me for the first time on such a stalk and even after a brief understand all the boundries backstops and rules of the ground ect.
We are in the event of a wounded animal allowed to track the animal with our dog "AS LONG AS WE ARE ASKED BY SAID CANDIDATE TO DO SO" As we cant expect our dogs to work for a stranger.
No different to leaving the animal and ringing for assistance to help as long as the candidate asks for such help and is seen to take control of a situation gone bad. If they do not the exam is stopped there and we track as normal dispatch as normal and only fill the paperwork up to the event of stopping the exam.
Likewise an animal can be stalked and written up and another one shot and another gralloched and lardered on 3 occasions there will be 3 dates on one stalk as critera have been completed on some dates but not others so if I did have to help in any other ways whats to say this wasn't written up and re-tested on another date.
You do not understand the system like many which is why C.W.'s are no longer going to be used.
And if an animal is quartering it is more acceptable to the system to pinn said animal then neck or head shoot.
The DMQ will not condone such shots unless in special circumstances.
Come to me and you will be asked to shoot boiler house area, neck shoot on test and i will witness such a shot you pay me for witnessing it if it comes back asking for another stalk as they find the circumstances were not special and you've wasted your money.
Now after june 1st all dsc2 candidates recieve a dvd which explains the system and whats required of them and us. You can try to get a copy it will explain things to you instead of just pulling me and the system to bits
I haven't set the standard just try to follow it as much as I can. But we are in a fluid enviorment in field conditions and rules cannot be set in stone.
As stated I am not anti neck shot nor head in some circumstances what i hate is when its done at "long range" by said sharpe shooters.
And may I say if you do shoot alot of animals in the neck if you have never got to it laid on the floor and it still have blink reaction you aint shot as many as you say. It Is not a gauranteed kill or miss shot same as any other.

Edited by john robbo, 18 May 2010 - 05:00 pm.


#43 tommydeer

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:11 pm

and again....pointless thread!

#44 v-max

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:40 pm


Here is my 10p worth & with alot of deer to my name i have never pinned intentionaly & is a shot i can not stand or like to see. If i see an anchored/pinned deer i make my view felt to the guest & even high light this before stalking as it is a practice i aint seen in a while. This is MHO on the matter & if i become a DMQ2 AW i will let it knowen i do not wish to see such practice pinning/anchoring its a no,no from me.
John Rambo i like your videos & what you put up alot of the time but as a DMQ2 AW & telling to do this i am shocked & the same when you mention taking it higher & doing the spine in. I am in for a good clean carcase & kill & hate to see a beast shot pollaxed/haunched etc as it makes me sick to waste the venison. As i mentioned before with you about you having to tell someone doing there level 2 stalk & you had to tell them to shot im lost. to me someone doing there level 2 should be up to scratch doing said test in my eyes even on unkowen ground. I feel you should only mention that the deer is ia a safe position not tell the candidate shoot it now.
I do not wish to fall out on the matter but make it clear i am not a pinned/anchor man nor would i tell a candidate to shoot thats up to him to work the deer. This test is for experianced people & theres more to deer managment/work other than shooting them.

Well if you went to a re-brief like I have just been to. We are allowed to tell a candidate while on a dsc2 stalk in as much as show them the boundries and obviously stepping in if a dangerous shot is about to be taken. Also it is accepable to tell a canditate it is safe to shoot when there is any doubt. Me and the system see no problem with this it is impossible for someone to come to me for the first time on such a stalk and even after a brief understand all the boundries backstops and rules of the ground ect.
We are in the event of a wounded animal allowed to track the animal with our dog "AS LONG AS WE ARE ASKED BY SAID CANDIDATE TO DO SO" As we cant expect our dogs to work for a stranger.
No different to leaving the animal and ringing for assistance to help as long as the candidate asks for such help and is seen to take control of a situation gone bad. If they do not the exam is stopped there and we track as normal dispatch as normal and only fill the paperwork up to the event of stopping the exam.
Likewise an animal can be stalked and written up and another one shot and another gralloched and lardered on 3 occasions there will be 3 dates on one stalk as critera have been completed on some dates but not others so if I did have to help in any other ways whats to say this wasn't written up and re-tested on another date.
You do not understand the system like many which is why C.W.'s are no longer going to be used.
And if an animal is quartering it is more acceptable to the system to pinn said animal then neck or head shoot.
The DMQ will not condone such shots unless in special circumstances.
Come to me and you will be asked to shoot boiler house area, neck shoot on test and i will witness such a shot you pay me for witnessing it if it comes back asking for another stalk as they find the circumstances were not special and you've wasted your money.
Now after june 1st all dsc2 candidates recieve a dvd which explains the system and whats required of them and us. You can try to get a copy it will explain things to you instead of just pulling me and the system to bits
I haven't set the standard just try to follow it as much as I can. But we are in a fluid enviorment in field conditions and rules cannot be set in stone.
As stated I am not anti neck shot nor head in some circumstances what i hate is when its done at "long range" by said sharpe shooters.
And may I say if you do shoot alot of animals in the neck if you have never got to it laid on the floor and it still have blink reaction you aint shot as many as you say. It Is not a gauranteed kill or miss shot same as any other.

Hi John i do not wish to start a fight just in my eyes someone in a position doing there DMQ2 should to me be of a highish standard to represent what it is worth & as you have stated be of knowledge to take control of a situation need it arize. In my eyes you should be close enough & mention that the beast is safe & leave it to the candidate to control the stalk ie stop it to shot or take the shot when it is on. As for a quartering/offside beast you dont shoot end of. I know why the system is going for all 3 stalks with an AW but i have done 1 or 2 portfolio's even helped our very own foxhunter on this site complete his DMQ2 & if he is honest he will tell you my standard is very high. When i did my DMQ2 my AW was the 1 doing the learning fae me & asked me to become an AW & we made a great friend ship through our passion for stalking but he has saddly passed away.
I just think that someone at this level trying for there DMQ2 should be left to it with you by there side incase they crumble & to if on your ground you can wisper safe shot & let them get on with it i thing to many DMQ2's seem to be given away as in 1 of your video's you told him to shot its just the way i think of it.
I like your video's & your comments on alot of the topics but sorry as for anchoring deer or telling a candidate to shoot allowed or not is a no,no for me its there stalk ball is in there hands its called responsability & is gained through experiance which shows in someone when your out with them as i can spot them once out if they can walk the walk they talk.

#45 wireviz

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 09:26 pm

Vmax you are the reason the system went to AW ,S only mate .Now please let me put you in the picture you are only there to check that the person meets the standards written in the PC,s Helping is only an option if you were going to fail them on that PC so what you are really telling us is that Foxhunters LEV 2 is worthless. Now if you have a chap and he shoots a deer in the shoulder and you are his AW for the stalk you be a good boy and keep you gob shut and let him get on with it. If you think he will fail because of it check with your assessor and he will no doubt remove you from the list of AW, :clapper: :clapper: Shoulder shot is fine but all the Deer sector and is the recommended shot by the FC while night shooting. :notworthy: :notworthy:


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