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Pinning a deer


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#16 SNAP SHOT

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:17 pm

F.T.B. I never aimed my comments at you and if 100yds is your limit on neck shots then fine. I was targeting the 300-400m's sharpshooters.



john, can i ask do you shoot alot at extended range, targets etc...? i've taken fallow at 282 yards and in and around, and yes with the .243

i practice as often as i can at long range... the last outting i placed 5 shots into 2 1/2 inches at 530 yards... yes thats 1/2 MOA.

this group opened up alot with wind the next group but was still within a heart lung shot limit...

although i wouldn't shoot a deer at that distance, but i do consider 300 or around within my limits..... and i stress MY limits...

We all like to stalk to our quarry, but sometimes its impossible due to herd numbers etc land issues, terrain..

i don't think its sharpshooting, just another SKILL i have in my stalking ability if i need it....

ATB.


Snap.

#17 john robbo

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:39 pm

I have shot 2 foxes at 600yrds +
and shoot rabbits hares and crows out to 500 so my ability isnt in question.
The point is IMHO a deer is a much larger animal and yes easier to hit but also easier to wound.
I am a sharpshooter myself but the line stops there its not stalking and my furthest deer has been 300m's and I killed it with a perfect heart shot.
I don't post this on here for a pat on the back.I have a 7mm rem mag that shoots sub .7 MOA and is fast and very flat. I would shoot 4 times as many deer if I shot +175ms.
I will(if it necessary) shoot fallow red and sika futher but roe are small targets (for deer) in comparision.
Our sport is stalking we are to outwit a wiley creature and get close and take a well aimed shot.
Follow up the beast and enter it into the food chain which is what I see stalking is about.
A blind man can stalk within 400m's of a deer.
A great shot at range is a great shot weather its a golf ball, tin can, crow, rabbit or deers head.
I take my hat off to those that do it JUST DON'T CALL IT STALKING.

#18 foxdropper

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:08 pm

I never for one moment thought you meant shooting a leg out John but the shoulder blades are not a kill area either .Trauma and blood loss is what you are relying on with that shot as well as a lack of mobility which dosnt sit right for me .The lungs ,heart sit immediately BEHIND the front shoulder blade ,have a look next time you open one up .Trachea is in line but thats all .

Edited by foxdropper, 16 May 2010 - 06:31 pm.


#19 wireviz

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:30 pm

Don't talk pi sh FD if you shoot a deer through the shoulders it will die very quick indeed and it wont be far from were it was hit.Hit in the right place on the front shoulder is a fatal shot and is on the DMQ 1 roe target. Keep it real and keep knocking them over.

#20 foxdropper

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:11 pm

Hit in the right place yes but a bit forward and your in trouble.The right place being just behind the blade when the leg is straight down . The shoulder is a big area and no amount of pursuading will tell me thats a preferred shot in any light . 'Dying very quickly indeed' covers a broad time frame and not the instant dead on its feet that im used to .If a beast still has a flicker in the eye then i consider it a bad shot .

#21 martin

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:02 pm

Here is a picture that will/should put the pinning of deer to bed once and for all,it shows,that if shot through the shoulder blades there is no major organs that would prove to me at least that the said deer would not die immediately,but,would bleed to death,which would take some time,but,would be dead(probably)by the time the stalker had waited the obligatory 5-10mins.And,if the beast wasn't dead on inspection then the shooter would have to give the coup de grace,and,if that is your bag then so be it,but,not mine.I,personally do not want to become embroiled in some petty arguement though,as we get too much of it on this forum as it is.

http://www.bestpract..._shotplace.aspx

Martin

#22 john robbo

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 02:46 am

Ok lets put this to bed until you shoot an animal in the shoulder your self and see it works fine your not going to believe it.This shot depends on how the animal is stood same as a head/neck shot. As you can see it will break the spine/lower neck same result as a neck shot.
but on your link martin have you pressed shot placement 2...
Where does it show anything other then a heart lung shot ??? :thumbs:

Edited by john robbo, 17 May 2010 - 02:49 am.


#23 wireviz

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:20 am

Don't be daft the shoulder is a big place and the shoulder blade is a small place it matters not what matters is the deer dies very quickly there is good room for error if you need it unlike a neck shot and if you shoot it back your in the vitals and will have a 60 mtr follow up unlike the lung shot if that's back you have a very sick deer and any one who has had to follow up o a gut shot will tell you it ain't nice. Good picture martin do you have the one from LEV1 shooting or a shot placement picture.That might reveal a true picture of what is an acceptable shot ( MARTIN THE Politician ) With regards putting this one to bed lets keep the new stalkers on track the shoulder area is a good accepted shot and is aloud in the DMQ 2 Portfolio. (IT IS ALSO BEST PRACTICE ).

http://www.bestpract...otplace02.aspx#
You will see from the pictures that most shots taken through the shoulder area would in fact kill the deer as quick if not quicker than most other shot,s I hope the ones that scalded jon for his shot choice now gives him the credit and make sure they don't condemn what is BEST PRACTICE.
Now get out there and put them on the ground.

Edited by wireviz, 17 May 2010 - 06:27 am.


#24 foxdropper

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 04:42 pm

Ok lets put this to bed until you shoot an animal in the shoulder your self and see it works fine your not going to believe it.This shot depends on how the animal is stood same as a head/neck shot. As you can see it will break the spine/lower neck same result as a neck shot.
but on your link martin have you pressed shot placement 2...
Where does it show anything other then a heart lung shot ??? http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


The heart lung shots on shot placement 2 on the link concerns a beast 3/4 on .Please dont try pulling the wool John because ive been around too long .
Square broadside ,the shoulder blade is forward of the vitals,you know it ,i know it end of .

#25 wireviz

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:21 pm

So is the kneck mate its well forward of the vitals now please let this go if you put a bullet through the front sholder you will cut off all blood going to the brain air going to the brain you will no doubt shock the spine. I use this shot all the time and i dont get many runners its a killer blow just about ever time. PS I dont do kneck shots they are not in any way reliable.

#26 martin

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:08 pm

Ok lets put this to bed until you shoot an animal in the shoulder your self and see it works fine your not going to believe it.This shot depends on how the animal is stood same as a head/neck shot. As you can see it will break the spine/lower neck same result as a neck shot.
but on your link martin have you pressed shot placement 2...
Where does it show anything other then a heart lung shot ??? http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


You are of course right John,but,it also doesn't show any pinning shots though. :thumbs:

#27 martin

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:14 pm

Don't be daft the shoulder is a big place and the shoulder blade is a small place it matters not what matters is the deer dies very quickly there is good room for error if you need it unlike a neck shot and if you shoot it back your in the vitals and will have a 60 mtr follow up unlike the lung shot if that's back you have a very sick deer and any one who has had to follow up o a gut shot will tell you it ain't nice. Good picture martin do you have the one from LEV1 shooting or a shot placement picture.That might reveal a true picture of what is an acceptable shot ( MARTIN THE Politician ) With regards putting this one to bed lets keep the new stalkers on track the shoulder area is a good accepted shot and is aloud in the DMQ 2 Portfolio. (IT IS ALSO BEST PRACTICE ).

http://www.bestpract...otplace02.aspx#
You will see from the pictures that most shots taken through the shoulder area would in fact kill the deer as quick if not quicker than most other shot,s I hope the ones that scalded jon for his shot choice now gives him the credit and make sure they don't condemn what is BEST PRACTICE.
Now get out there and put them on the ground.


What does that mean(in red)?

You also speak as if DMQ2 is the be all and end all of stalking,but,it aint.

#28 stalkerboydy

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:46 pm

i feel in 34yrs+ of Deer Stalking i have been very lucky to have shot ALL Six species of our Deer and a few Wild Boar using a .25-06 120g Partition or 120g Grand Slam. What i found is Munty, c.w.d. and Roe through the rib's drop to shot. Sika, Fallow and Red run on. Now to my anwser to this thread. I shoot a few hundred Fallow and 10-15 Red's each season Red's female are dressing out 240lb+ so in my eyes are BIG (NOT PARK OR PENNED) when i find my self in a situation where i dont want the deer to run on i shoot (what was desribed to me Pin the shoulder) high through the top of the shoulder, and more than i can count have (1) Dropped to shot-(2)have been killed right away-(3)those and it has been very very few have gone feet NOT yrd's If i am wrong i will stand corrected, this shot cause's the same effect as a base of the neck shot a severed spinal cord instance DEATH. I as some of you are aware i have posted on other thread's my thought's about Head/Neck shot.so wont go there.

#29 john robbo

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:56 pm

Martin I think if you look again at it to hit the red region i.e the heart on the quartering shots you will infact pinn 1 leg either on entry or exit.(I can see at least 6 deer on the clock where a leg is pinned)
regards john

#30 martin

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:07 pm

Martin I think if you look again at it to hit the red region i.e the heart on the quartering shots you will infact pinn 1 leg either on entry or exit.(I can see at least 6 deer on the clock where a leg is pinned)
regards john


They may well be pinned John,but,that is a side issue,as the shot is taken to travel through the vitals mate,not to break the shoulder.


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