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#16 john robbo

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 05:37 pm

I passed 1 last November, have registered for 2 but want to get more experience before doing witnessed stalks, no point wasting an AW's time and my money if I am not at the required standard.

At our re-briefing it was made clear to us that canditdates who dont cut it should have the assessment stopped and then the rest of the outing used as training.
So make sure you are ready or be prepared to only have parts filled in.

#17 foxdropper

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 04:48 pm

I ,along with many lads i know do not have the dsc at all and have all the stalking i could ever wish for and no sign of any change either .So far as i see it you lads are playing right into their hands with the paperwork ,youve opened up the flood gates for more paperwork and more costing to yourselves .Some of you ,and i say some of you seem to think you are a cut above the rest simply because you do things according to a manual!.Ive stalked with several of these types and the bigotry was amazing ,cut short by one know all when a head shot went badly wrong on a fallow doe and this fron a leading writer on the subject .Im not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way and dont expect a response from me if i do but for my part there is no difference at all .If required by law then i will have to but until that time they can swivel :censored: .
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#18 vincy

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:53 pm

i have both of mine and have had them a few years now

#19 tommydeer

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:36 pm

I have to admit to being 100% behind what foxdropper has said. Working within the deer industry means i have seen, met and witnessed many people with their paperwork on outings and in the larder.

#20 martin

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:46 pm

I've got my 'Bronze Swimming Medal' is that any good,.cos,unless it does become law then I will be dropping deer all over the place without one,and,like Foxdropper,I too have plenty to go at and all free of charge.The likes of BASC that are spearheading this extra paperwork that by the way lines their pockets(surprise surprise)have just the one thing on their mind,and that is making extra money out of Stalkers.I(personally)wouldn't pi55 on BASC if they were on fire.........Martin

:snack: .....incoming.

#21 john robbo

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:33 pm

Sorry Martin I cant agree, 1 thing is yes I stand to gain I dont argue with that.
BUT only this morning I had a chap out and he said he has shot a few deer but agrees hes still a novice.
He said his gun was zeroed 1 inch low at 100m's and that was as near as he could get it as he was down to his last 5 bullets. he only wanted 1 deer so that would be ample. :wallbash:
I see these things everyday often from lads who should know better.
COMPULSORY testing has my vote all the way. :boxing: :big_boss:

#22 brno17

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:25 pm

Sorry Martin I cant agree, 1 thing is yes I stand to gain I dont argue with that.
BUT only this morning I had a chap out and he said he has shot a few deer but agrees hes still a novice.
He said his gun was zeroed 1 inch low at 100m's and that was as near as he could get it as he was down to his last 5 bullets. he only wanted 1 deer so that would be ample. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
I see these things everyday often from lads who should know better.
COMPULSORY testing has my vote all the way. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


John, i cant agree with the above either, if compulsory testing ( as will be steam rollered in up here in scotland )has your vote then why dont guys such as yourself offer training for free? or like many are you willing to jump on the basc/bds/dcs gravy train and ride it as long as you can? as posted previously my mates and i did our level 1 but only because we felt we had to before we were forced into it and probably a massive price hike to boot to be able to be on the much vaunted "approved list", luckily in scotland grant funding is available for level 1 so it cost us next to nothing and while i enjoyed the course i dont think it makes anyone a greatly improved stalker, it just gives you a badge and a certificate which much like a driving license you only start to learn once your out doing it on your own getting the most important thing EXPERIENCE. there are many stalkers i know and some who have posted on this post with upwards of 20 years experience of deer and to tell them that some punter who stalks five times a year but has a cetificate is "qualified" and they are not is quite simply bloody lunacy! lastly, i dont doubt from past posts your concerns about deer welfare but why if you were not happy about things with the stalker quoted above did you even take him out ? would a certificate have made him have his rifle zeroed better or brought more bullets with him, i doubt it. i realise your running a business john but you cant have it both ways.

flak jacket and tin helmet on :thumbs:

Edited by brno17, 29 April 2010 - 10:27 pm.


#23 tommydeer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:54 am

I see a trend developing :clapper:

#24 Rake aboot

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 07:34 am

Got my level 1 to help with aquiring stalking in East lothian area but it`s sewn up so tight that I`ve given up trying and never progressed to level 2.

#25 garethw

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:27 am

I think there is a flaw in Level 1, it is to theory based there should definitely be some practical element to it even if it is one successful stalk. I went to work for 6 weeks whilst away I studied the BDS manual and Dave Stretton's manual, found the answers to the questions and studied those. I then went and did the assessments and shooting tests and passed. Upto that point i had not fired a shot at a deer, had not done a gralloch and other than seeing photos, and watching a dvd.

Now someone who has never handled a firearm before (I had) can do the exact same thing then be allowed out to stalk unaccompanied. In my mind this wrong, if some form of compulsory testing is to be adopted it has to be more than the present level 1 even if just from a safety point of view.

I know alot of people are against compulsory testing, but it looks as if it is the future of this sport, if that is the case then it needs to be revamped. There is nothing to stop someone doing 1 then registering for 2 and getting 3 successful stalks and being signed off. Does 3 successful stalks make you experienced, safe and knowledgeable? On the flip side is someone who has been stalking for years with no recognised qualifications unsafe?

I agree the cost is a lot and would only increase if level 1 was expanded, the professional stalkers need to make their living. Maybe they should be lobbying BASC, BDS, DCS for help financially in some form of grant where by a trainee stalker pays half and the organisations pay half to the guide/stalker, once the novice reaches level 1, before anyone says that would be open to abuse whereby the novice gets signed off quicker so the pro can get their money. If a system was in place where you do the theory and qualifying stalks with one person, then a final assessment/stalk with an independent one.

Legislation in this country is getting worse and won't be getting any better. A lot of forces are suggesting you need to do/be registered for level 1 before granting a FAC for deer, something needs to be done to bring a level playing field across the whole of the UK.

#26 john robbo

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:01 am

Firstly when I said I am in a position to gain that is only from lvl.2.
I think lvl.1 or similar should be compulsory then at least some gun handling and understanding of firearms has been digested before entering the field. :big_boss:
Then I read your comments and take on board what has been said.
This thread wasnt intended to thrash out the rights and wrongs of the system only who had the dsc1+2.
My point here is simple only other guides see with the regularity that I do the amount of unsafe and bad practice adopted by stalkers novice or otherwise.
You all will have seen some if you take newbies or friends out at the weekend times your experiences by 300 a year and you will see what i see.
:gunsmilie: :icon_eek:
Further to this I offer a service you pay for this that gets you access to land with deer on it and 22 years experience.
If you can find it for free FINE get it I dont blame you.
Nothing in life is for free (usually) so why should deer training be any different.
Before going pro I used to mentor many shooters, but I'm pro (hint) thats my living I cant live on fresh air.
Anyhows back to the thread please.
Who has done DSC1+2.??? :thumbs:

Edited by john robbo, 30 April 2010 - 10:03 am.


#27 Night Hunter

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:56 am

Firstly when I said I am in a position to gain that is only from lvl.2.
I think lvl.1 or similar should be compulsory then at least some gun handling and understanding of firearms has been digested before entering the field. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Then I read your comments and take on board what has been said.
This thread wasnt intended to thrash out the rights and wrongs of the system only who had the dsc1+2.
My point here is simple only other guides see with the regularity that I do the amount of unsafe and bad practice adopted by stalkers novice or otherwise.You all will have seen some if you take newbies or friends out at the weekend times your experiences by 300 a year and you will see what i see.
http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Further to this I offer a service you pay for this that gets you access to land with deer on it and 22 years experience.
If you can find it for free FINE get it I dont blame you.
Nothing in life is for free (usually) so why should deer training be any different.
Before going pro I used to mentor many shooters, but I'm pro (hint) thats my living I cant live on fresh air.
Anyhows back to the thread please.
Who has done DSC1+2.??? http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


I see you are quoting Best Practice then on your other post you admit to taking head shots (Bad Practice)

#28 john robbo

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:23 am

QUOTE...I will take neck shots and occasional head shots.
But only in selective circumstances and not as preferred method.
What I am saying here is for everybody to give it plenty of thought before they pull the trigger,
we can agree on that i'm sure.
UNQUOTE.

If you read it i'm sure it will read only in certain circumstances, and that iI much prefer chest followed by neck.
Head shots are "best practice" to finish an animal off.

Edited by john robbo, 30 April 2010 - 11:27 am.


#29 Night Hunter

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 03:28 pm

John heres another one of your posts on the same thread mate

QUOTE
"I would say it has been shot and the bullet hasn't expanded well.
This weather it has or not been shot just highlights the dangers of this shot which is why Best practice guides and DMQ will not back these shots.
Its time gamedealers excepted a little damage and allowed hunters to follow our guidelines".


Bit contradictory me thinks,not a dig mate but just confirms my point



QUOTE...I will take neck shots and occasional head shots.
But only in selective circumstances and not as preferred method.
What I am saying here is for everybody to give it plenty of thought before they pull the trigger,
we can agree on that i'm sure.
UNQUOTE.

If you read it i'm sure it will read only in certain circumstances, and that iI much prefer chest followed by neck.
Head shots are "best practice" to finish an animal off.



Not how it reads mate,no point trying to justify it after its out there,just ask Gordon Brown

#30 john robbo

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 04:07 pm

just ask any of my last 50 clients how many have taken a head shot???(if you ask on here there are some of my clients and they will tell you I ask for no "clever" shooting just a boiler house shot.)
None :wallbash:
And me personaly out of the last 50 deer I've shot NONE.
Cant prove this dont have to.
All that was written earlier is that in my careeer I have shot deer in the head (and dont like it)
And the DMQ will now not condone it, though they have in the past.I have had 1 deer go through many moons ago with a head shot.
"best practice" is exactly that not a hard and fast rule just a guideline.
You will find if you look hard enough my dislike for the said shot.
But in my honesty I have admitted an occasional head shot when circumstances have been correct.
""But only in selective circumstances and not as preferred method.""
What in my above statement is not to read propley???
""Its time gamedealers excepted a little damage and allowed hunters to follow our guidelines".""
All this means is gamedealers should accept boiler house shots on deer and not penalise the hunter for such a shot..??
I personally haven't sold a deer to a gamedealer for 3 years.
All mine the clients take or go as rent or go to other outlets.
Still cannot see your point, I haven't contradicted myself only made an admition that on occasion I have taken a head shot ONLY WHEN THE SITUATION HAS DICTATED NOT TO SATISFY A GAMEDEALER.


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