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Light load for 243Win


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#46 danebrewer10

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:57 pm

Hello Lads,

I may be wrong but i think you all seem to think i want a light 243 deer load,,,, no what i want is to down load to a light bullet for use on FOX, for the deer id use the 100g load.
My problem isnt rate of twist, too much powder weight of bullet its this ,,, I cant justify buying a rifle that may only be used once or twice a year,, the way i see it its better to use a light loaded bigger gun for fox than try to pump up a small gun to use on deer



aaah right then, that is what I didn't get- well I think that if you have a 100gn bullet that shoots well for deer, then I'd be surprised if you were able to shoot a 55 gn and obtain the same level of accuracy as it wouldn't stabilise the bullet, but both hornady and nosler do varmint bullets (nosler varmint and hornady v-max) in the 60-80 grain range that would probably be a better choice- as far as load data goes, I can't help there!- best bet would be to have a look in a reloading manual- Hogdon/IMR have an online one that you can look at and download the pages you're interested in HERE perhaps what you could do is shoot some factory varmint loads through your rifle, meter them over a chron and then replicate the results through hand loading, obviously going with the most accurate for your gun, then it'd be much cheaper than buying boxes of lightweight bullets that you can't shoot in your rifle...

Edited by danebrewer10, 29 April 2010 - 10:04 pm.


#47 Mr_Logic

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:03 pm

A fast twist will also stabilise the lighter bullets, but there is sometimes a danger that if you spin the bullet too hard, if the jacket is very thin it could break up. Not likely on a Nosler ballistic tip.

#48 HUnter_zero

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:51 am

A fast twist will also stabilise the lighter bullets, but there is sometimes a danger that if you spin the bullet too hard, if the jacket is very thin it could break up. Not likely on a Nosler ballistic tip.


Please show evidence of bullets being over stabilised.
There is a myth, contained mainly with inexperienced shooters that a bullet can be "too" stable.

John

#49 HUnter_zero

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:57 am

aaah right then, that is what I didn't get- well I think that if you have a 100gn bullet that shoots well for deer, then I'd be surprised if you were able to shoot a 55 gn and obtain the same level of accuracy as it wouldn't stabilise the bullet



Bang on the money buddy!
My 1in12 Pro-hunter is great with 58 grain V-max, very good with 75 grain V-max but not very good with 100 grain SP's.
58 grainers will produce one very small hole, 75 grainers a little over 3/4" but 100 grainers 1 - 2" groups.

Really just going back to what I posted earlier in the thread, the OP needs to find a rifle with a twist that is suited to a mid weight bullet and have a compromise or much like another poster suggested, just stick to 100 grain bullets. Over kill for foxes but dead is dead.

John

#50 HUnter_zero

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:06 am

John...you need to lighten up a bit...there is more to shooting than a text book!



Let's just face it, your mate was bull$hitting. I have played around with plenty of 'hot'loads but as yet have never been able to put more powder in the case than the case would permit :wallbash:

Granted I have never reloaded with the powder that he suggested using, but I would certainly (as many others would also) take quick loads predictions very seriously indeed. Final estimated velocities have always been +/- 200 fps when compared to real time range testing, thats jolly well good in my eyes and enough to make me follow Quick loads advice.
Just so that you know, Quick load is a computer simulator, not a text book :wallbash:

John

#51 danebrewer10

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:08 am


A fast twist will also stabilise the lighter bullets, but there is sometimes a danger that if you spin the bullet too hard, if the jacket is very thin it could break up. Not likely on a Nosler ballistic tip.


Please show evidence of bullets being over stabilised.
There is a myth, contained mainly with inexperienced shooters that a bullet can be "too" stable.

John

I think what MR L. is getting at is probably more applicable to the US where they tend to love their magnum calibres and blazing fast varmint rounds- where the .22-250 and .220 swift etc are concerned as well as the faster magnums, I read somewhere that people were pushing light varmint bullets so fast that they were unable to cope with the centrifugal force- (opposite force to the centripetal force which acts inwards, maintaining a curved path of a body- A-level physics for you! :D ) and simply broke apart due to the massive forces they were experiencing- this is I would have thought only at the extreme end of the scale at the pinnacle of speed demon cartridges loaded pretty hot- so probably not applicable to our chap looking for a .243 fox load- but no, I can't see how a bullet can be too stable- rather a paradox... (well not a paradox but you get the idea)

Cheers
DB :thumbs:

and yes dead is dead, but I reckon there'd be less "mess" with a bigger controlled expansion bullet than a frangible varmint one though either one will mean the end of the road for charlie!

Edited by danebrewer10, 30 April 2010 - 09:10 am.


#52 HUnter_zero

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:11 am

I can't see how a bullet can be too stable- rather a paradox... (well not a paradox but you get the idea)



It's possible to push a thin jacket bullet to disintegration but it's not due to being 'over' stabilised and very unlikely to occur with factory rifles. Either a bullet is stable or it isn't.
There are many myths including 'burning lead vapour trails'.

John

#53 Mr_Logic

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 04:31 pm

hz, did I ever talk about over-stabilisation? nope.... I said a bullet could break up if spun too hard, and this is rare but can happen, which is why I said it was unlikely with a Nosler ballistic tip.

Regarding H414 in a 243 case, 52 gr is possible and I've done it and the rifle is still here. It did top 4000 occasionally but averages a fraction under. Quickload may disagree, but I couldn't give a flying f*** because I've done it, and it's not caused any issues. Certainly not a mild load but there are no problems with it in my rifle.

#54 Deker

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:11 pm




John...you need to lighten up a bit...there is more to shooting than a text book!



Let's just face it, your mate was bull$hitting. I have played around with plenty of 'hot'loads but as yet have never been able to put more powder in the case than the case would permit http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Granted I have never reloaded with the powder that he suggested using, but I would certainly (as many others would also) take quick loads predictions very seriously indeed. Final estimated velocities have always been +/- 200 fps when compared to real time range testing, thats jolly well good in my eyes and enough to make me follow Quick loads advice.
Just so that you know, Quick load is a computer simulator, not a text book http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

John

John...you need to lighten up a bit...there is more to shooting than a text book or computer programme or email or text or what your mate told you or what you heard down the pub or..........!!

Edited by Deker, 01 May 2010 - 02:44 pm.


#55 raynard

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:40 pm

hi sidelock, a little like yourself i had a 223 for fox and a 243 for deer, i didnt want a cabinet full of guns so i decided to use the 243 for both so now its my only cf rifle, i use 55g blitzkings,44g of h4895 i get about 3,650fps from a 20inch barrel, now thats as technical as i get, i think using the same rifle all the time helps me with accuracy and i get one shot kills on everything from roe downwards, hope this simple answer helps

#56 Sidelock

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:57 am

Thank you Raynard,

Thank you all. A simple to the point answer, may i ask what rifle your using as your set up seems to be just what im looking for. Thanks Tom

#57 SNAP SHOT

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:52 am

there is such a thing as an over stabilised bulletm BUT it doesn't come into play at close range say ie. typical hunting ranges...

Also too fast a twist would cause a loss in velocity, and can leed to jacket seperation in some cases....

take a look at a few of these...

http://www.shootingt...ndex1.html#cont




http://www.nennstiel...llfly/fig15.htm


In simple terms when you do shoot your bullet and it is overstabilised, the tip of the bullet points to the sky... and your bullets flight path changes...

hence poi changes too..... not much but it does change...

but i'm sure the gunsmiths on here will tell you that stepping up twist slightly is better than not stabilising the bullet......


Snap.








#58 raynard

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 01:45 pm

sure sidelock, the set up is tikka t3 varmint 20in heavy barrel 1-10 twist, ior 4-14x56 scope wildcat pred8 moderator, i went for the shorter barrel as all of my foxing is from a vehicle so keeping the set up more compact is more comfortable

#59 HUnter_zero

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 06:00 pm

there is such a thing as an over stabilised bullet
Snap.



So what happens to a bullet when is it over stabilised, does it become unstabilised?

John

#60 HUnter_zero

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 06:07 pm

.

Edited by HUnter_zero, 03 May 2010 - 06:20 pm.



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