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wint

Ballistic tip Vs Soft point

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I like a bloody great mess !

 

[note: no intentionally aimed directly at Mr_logic]

 

It's a funny old world, not so long ago people took pride in killing humanely and cleanly. These days it seems in vogue to blow the animals to kingdom come, take photos of the blood bath and promote your skills as an expert animal demolition specialist all over tinernet. As a group we wonder why the government, police and animal rights groups have twitchy fingers. I and most other shooting folk can understand that the animals were killed quickly but to the casual on looker, it must look horrific and to any law enforcement personnel their worst nightmare. Times do move on, but for me a dead fox with a clean bullet hole, that dropped on the spot, full body intact is my preference.

 

John

 

I take your point, but I don't agree. Yes, some people don't like gore, but they already didn't like shooting, so sod that. I would much rather annoy a bunch of muppets than have an animal suffer. If ol' Charlie ends up with a 6-inch hole on one side but he's gone down in a lump, great! He needs to die because of human society, and by making damn sure there's plenty of grunt, I've ensured that his death was as quick as it could possibly be - I've done my bit, and if it looks a bit graphic for someone with no shooting experience, well... they don't have to look!

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I like a bloody great mess !

 

[note: no intentionally aimed directly at Mr_logic]

 

It's a funny old world, not so long ago people took pride in killing humanely and cleanly. These days it seems in vogue to blow the animals to kingdom come, take photos of the blood bath and promote your skills as an expert animal demolition specialist all over tinernet. As a group we wonder why the government, police and animal rights groups have twitchy fingers. I and most other shooting folk can understand that the animals were killed quickly but to the casual on looker, it must look horrific and to any law enforcement personnel their worst nightmare. Times do move on, but for me a dead fox with a clean bullet hole, that dropped on the spot, full body intact is my preference.

 

John

 

I take your point, but I don't agree. Yes, some people don't like gore, but they already didn't like shooting, so sod that. I would much rather annoy a bunch of muppets than have an animal suffer. If ol' Charlie ends up with a 6-inch hole on one side but he's gone down in a lump, great! He needs to die because of human society, and by making damn sure there's plenty of grunt, I've ensured that his death was as quick as it could possibly be - I've done my bit, and if it looks a bit graphic for someone with no shooting experience, well... they don't have to look!

Agreed, big hole = very dead! Trouble is, joe public DOES look, and DOES misinterpret what is going on ...... just best if they don't see in my opinion.

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I take your point, but I don't agree. if it looks a bit graphic for someone with no shooting experience, well... they don't have to look!

 

I have plenty of shooting experience but find no pleasure looking at photos of foxes with their eyes and brain hanging out, or animals entrails hanging out. In fact I would go as far to say such pleasure could only be gained by the mentally ill. Now if I were a police officer and were to see some of the photos and comments, it would seriously worry me personally, especially if the public could use such projectiles against me. It's not a long walk before you have the top brass calling for a ban. As a group of sporting folk we are always causing ourselves many more problems than we need to by giving people reasons to complain and campaign which in turn may or may not lead to a total ban, but I think we could both agree a ban on polymer tipped bullets would be a great loss. 'old' timer soft nose bullets & the more modern polymer bullets both have a place in shooting sports would be nice to keep it that way.

 

John

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Not being funny - why are we arguing about whether or not people look at photos of annihilated rabbits (since foxes are usually only a bit manky)? Personally I think they're just rabbits and if a large calibre bullet causes what looks like a small explosion I don't much care, same goes with fox.

 

Ultimately, if you get shot with any bullet it tends to leave a hole, and you'll get entrails and death with softpoints or ballistic tips - Deker and I have shot rabbits with 50gr SPs in the 223, and they're every bit as mangled as the ones hit with Vmaxes.

 

My opinion on posting pictures of such things is that if it's done it needs to be announced in the thread title, so those who would be offended can avoid it. As far as censoring ourselves because of the antis? Bollocks to that - they don't censor anything that annoys us, so they can take a running jump - I will not be villified by a bunch of wankers so stupid that it's a wonder they can tie their shoelaces. Oh wait... they probably don't have shoelaces because they don't like the death of animals for a nice pair of leather shoes - so they can only cope with Velcro!

 

Am all for good PR and trying to be nice to the antis, but if we start giving ourselves one rule and leaving them another we make things even worse! Do you think they will ever leave us alone? Don't kid yourselves - running away is not the answer, hiding is not the answer, two fingers, in a very polite, BASC-edited kind of way, is the answer! At some stage we have to stand on our hind legs and argue to keep what we enjoy, without pointless regulation from outside. Our regulation of our sports must be to ensure that the animals do not suffer, that we take careful time with the countryside, and make sure conservation is done well. It should NOT include appeasement - our sport DOES include some pretty manky things - the mere fact that the pictures make it onto here is often a mark of how shocking it was in the first place, and fairly regularly it includes "has anyone else ever seen this?" - sanity check. As an outside example, my other half has a horse, and some of the stuff they publish in magazines is enough to make those with a dodgy tummy blow chunks, but horses are 'allowed' so nobody queries it.

 

And then back on topic really...

 

Forgetting the pictures of the destruction, if I am out shooting then the only person who will see a big hole in a fox or a rabbit is me, and I have a strong stomach and a stronger desire not to cause suffering. Don't see the harm personally.

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Ballistic tip varmint fragments, the hunting stuff less so, at least so they tell me - just about to load my first batch of BT deer bullets.

 

For fox, BTs are about as good as you'll get, though V-max and Blitzkings are both excellent bullets.

 

SPs work well on deer but aren't the most accurate - Nosler do the accubond and partition, which have less expansion than the BT - they will likely be more accurate.

 

Of course, all this depends on your rifle - Deker's rifles love cheap crap ammo, and mine hate it. THis is a very broad and annoying trend, and it carries across about 12 rifles between us - very annoying for me, though I don't hear him complaining!!

I use Speer SP on deer 100gr (.243) gives abourt a 1 " exit wound; my fathers an experienced stalker (40yrs) and will never again use a BT bullet for Roe, internal damage is massive; metal fragments throughout the carcase and requires a lot of cleaning. He uses Nosler Partition 100g in a 6mm Ackley and swears by them, "the most accurate bullet he has ever used"; Deer drop on the spot at vast distances, exit wound similar to my Speers.

Edited by chocky14u

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Ballistic tip varmint fragments, the hunting stuff less so, at least so they tell me - just about to load my first batch of BT deer bullets.

 

For fox, BTs are about as good as you'll get, though V-max and Blitzkings are both excellent bullets.

 

SPs work well on deer but aren't the most accurate - Nosler do the accubond and partition, which have less expansion than the BT - they will likely be more accurate.

 

Of course, all this depends on your rifle - Deker's rifles love cheap crap ammo, and mine hate it. THis is a very broad and annoying trend, and it carries across about 12 rifles between us - very annoying for me, though I don't hear him complaining!!

I use Speer SP on deer 100gr (.243) gives abourt a 1 " exit wound; my fathers an experienced stalker (40yrs) and will never again use a BT bullet for Roe, internal damage is massive; metal fragments throughout the carcase and requires a lot of cleaning. He uses Nosler Partition 100g in a 6mm Ackley and swears by them, "the most accurate bullet he has ever used"; Deer drop on the spot at vast distances, exit wound similar to my Speers.

 

Horses for courses, everyone will have a viewpoint and potentially a different take on this! You correctly make the point that on the whole Ballistic Tips cause massive internal damage!

 

Deer are NOT always shot for meat or on paid stalks, and the right ballistic tip is without any doubt the quickest way to a kill and the least runners!!

 

So there are pros and cons, each situation is different and calls for the appropriate ammunition! :thumbs:

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