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#16 Rainmaker

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 02:17 am

Fair play Ditch, just make sure you throw them a couple of big RMBs a week to keep them teeth clean. There's nowt like minced food to stick to the teeth and cause plaque/tartar buildup = periodontal disease.

Don't bother discarding the fat mate. As Phil was alluding to, it's the best source of energy intake for a dog and does no harm at all. Hard working dogs (eg huskies) will take 60%+ raw fat into their diet to perform properly. Raw fat is GOOD for dogs, and has no negative consequences on the cardiovascular system as it would in humans.

Regarding veggies. I KNOW this comes up all the time lads, but can we please drop the "essential"? Most authorities believe a dog is a carnivore, and does NOT need vegetables etc.

I am not (and never do) say that you are WRONG to feed veggies - it's free choice and can't do any harm. BUT they are certainly not essential. Essential means the dog would die without them, which they most certainly do and will not! ;)

I never ever feed my dogs veggies.

As for the old argument about wolves eating the stomach contents - balderdash! Show me one source showing this? Wolves DO NOT eat the stomach contents of their prey. They scatter it around the kill site and once the actual stomach (a meat item!) is free of veggie mush they eat the muscle/meat.

Any wolf expert can tell you that - see the works of Dr. L. David Mech and others. He is a life-long expert of wild wolf ecology and has many times re-iterated that wild wolves WILL NOT eat stomach contents or (unless hungry in the extreme) herbage.

If you're gonna feed veggies etc, fair play and all power to ya. But can we stop saying they're essential, necessary, or even "natural" please? Feel free to prove me wrong, but the operative word here is PROVE.

Back-and-forth discussion proves nothing. Provide sources, show video, quote journals, ecologists, zoologists... Best of luck in that quest, you'll be there a very long time, as they just don't do it LOL

All the best, with no offence intended.

Lee

Edited by RainmakerKennels, 03 September 2006 - 02:19 am.


#17 Guest_carra_*

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 05:06 am

will i post or not ? f**k it here goes , this thred is utter bollox and you lads dont seem to know nout about nutrision even though i cant spell it right lol but enyway , all i le say is animal fats , your missing this out by feeding pure lean meat or offal such as ox heart , YOU NEED FATS , YOU NEED FATS , tripe is tripe only to be given to adult dogs as for it is acidic and can cause boan problems in young dogs , my rant is over now .

#18 Fletcher

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 07:32 am

In my opinion when it come to feeding a raw food diet to dogs we should offer a variety of different meats and bones, ensuring they get a "complete" diet as possible, I feed mine veg as well but only because they like it.

#19 ROZ

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 10:06 am

If you gonna feed a raw diet to your dogs have look at some of the Barf or rawfeeding sites on the web.
Dogs also need omega 3 whitch can be found in fish oil ie sardines/mackeral. As for veggie it's already been said they don't necessarily need them. :) green Tripe not the white stuff you get from the butcher as this has been bleached all the goodness taken out. :)

Edited by rozesky, 03 September 2006 - 10:09 am.


#20 targa

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 10:30 am

LOL Yous are all getting ripped off, shop around http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Except for occasionally getting "caught short" and buying some chicken thigh quarters etc from tesco, I get all my dog and ferret food for free. Breast of lamb, chicken backs, lamb necks, pigs ears/tails/trotters, rib racks (beef/pork), beef/ox pork and lamb hearts, lights (lungs/trachea) etc etc.

The only thing I actually buy occasionally is tripe - about 20p/lb.

Just ask around until you find a sympathetic butcher, then try the slaughter houses and major catering warehouses. They throw out IBCs full of useable RMBs, there for the asking http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

EDIT: DitchShitter, the only mincer you need is in the dogs/ferrets' mouth http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


Your butcher may be sympathic, but I would think twice before you give your dogs pigs ears, tails, trotters, rib racks. There's a disease called Ausjeskie, dogs die in a couple ours from it, and it come's from a pigs bacterial infection. COOCK IT TO THE BONE when u use pig meat!
Ausjeskie have's the same symptoms as rabies, that's why they call it pseudo-rabies, and I'm shure it excist in the UK.

#21 DIGGIT

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 10:36 am

IM BACK :11:

when i was a kid my grandfather use to keep bull terriers wich he used for pit fighting i can always remember him walking to the butchers 3 times a week to pick up all the ofcuts and bones. when he got back home he used to have a pot down the bottom of the garden were he would have a boilup with all the meat and bones he also used veg in the boilup aswell but he use to tell me only use root veg such as carrots parsnips spuds things like that.
when it was all cooked up and looking good in a broth he used to pour it over some brown loafs of bread and mix it all in with his hands and then feed the dogs accordingly.

the old bugger has passed away now but i can always remember him telling me to get a dog looking good and doing good on the outside you must always put good on the inside :drink: :drink:.

#22 FastDogz

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:33 am

Get the fat fed too :D
Mi mate has just started her Pit X Boxer off on Raw Diet like she said..Wild dogs hardley ever suffer health probs and they wudnt strip the fat off would they :thumbs-up:

I am Still trying to presued the Boyf to let me feed Raw for some fecking reason he wont have non of it :unsure: Probabaly scared itll give the hounds shits all over his fancy carpet or summat :rofl:

Friggin Poof :realmad:

#23 Guest_danny_*

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:39 am

:11: hey if its a good carpet... :rofl:

#24 FastDogz

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:48 am

Thyve already dumped all over it loads :clapper:

I clean it up whats his problem :icon_eek:

#25 Guest_danny_*

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:55 am

:11: laminate flooring...cant beat it if the dogs are indoors... :rofl:

#26 Rainmaker

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:28 pm

Carra - at least two people had already mentioned the benefits of feeding good raw fat before your "rant". Myself and phil for sure. Did you read the entire thread? ;)

As for tripe, it may be acidic, but so is the dog's stomach environment. The acidophilus bacterium found in tripe live in this environment and pass on to dogs beneficial enzymes (protein precursors) and bacteria. Furthermore, the Ca:P ratio in fresh green tripe is just perfect.

That doesn't take away the importance of feeding heart in the diet, especially as it's a vital source of taurine and other amino acids, which regulate the intake of calcium into the heart, which in turn regulates the heart beat.

Targa, about Aujeszky's disease: First of all my friend it is not a bacterial infection, but a viral one. Even in pigs it is uncommon, and where found is usually amongst the young stock (Salwa, A 2004, A natural outbreak of Aujeszky's disease in farm animals, Polish journal of veterinary science, 7(4) pp261-6).

According to Dr Tom Lonsdale (2005, Work Wonders, Rivetco PL, p56) "In general, pork neck bones, pig's trotters and pig's heads are a safe, economical source of food for dogs".

I have never encountered problems with feeding raw pork in my years of raw feeding. It is not a real concern in these modern times, especially in the UK.

While it is always good that debate is stimulated about feeding dogs an appropriate diet, and those on this site clearly love their dogs and do their best to "do right" by them, it would be even nicer if people would back up their claims and assertions with some real evidence. Anecdotal is fine, but when you can say "x + y = z BECAUSE..." and provide sources, all the better.

Cheers,

Lee

#27 Phil Lloyd

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 03:04 pm

Very instructional and informative post Lee,.many thanks for the info,..I'm a 'born again' barfa :11:
All the best,..CHALKWARREN... ;)

#28 targa

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 03:18 pm

LEE, raw porc meat is not good food for dogs, for 3 reasons, 1. it holds all kind of parasite's and worms, especialy band worms,2. there's no bone that splinter so hard as porc bones, especialy rib's, and 3. Ausjeski (bacterial ..viral, whatever..) 20 years ago there was an outbreak in Luxembourg, and I now from people there what it can do to your dog in 6 to 24 hours: slaver, shock, coma, death. In that order. Unreversable. And whatever Dr T Londsdale says, I dont even think of feeding my dogs raw porc. By the way: The only carnivore's that live on a pure meat diet only, are cats and martens.

Kris

#29 Rainmaker

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 05:10 pm

LEE, raw porc meat is not good food for dogs, for 3 reasons, 1. it holds all kind of parasite's and worms, especialy band worms,2. there's no bone that splinter so hard as porc bones, especialy rib's, and 3. Ausjeski (bacterial ..viral, whatever..) 20 years ago there was an outbreak in Luxembourg, and I now from people there what it can do to your dog in 6 to 24 hours: slaver, shock, coma, death. In that order. Unreversable. And whatever Dr T Londsdale says, I dont even think of feeding my dogs raw porc. By the way: The only carnivore's that live on a pure meat diet only, are cats and martens.

Kris


Worms are in the environment anyway, and a regular prophylactic schedule of worming will prevent any infestation. By band worms do you mean tape worms? I understand that English is not your primary language, and so this is not a dig but a genuine question.

As for raw pork bones splintering "hard" - even puppies can and will handle raw pork bones (ribs and tails being especially good). I don't understand where you got this concept from?

If Aujeszky's is a serious issue in your part of the world by all means avoid pork, I stated this earlier. If pork reared and intended for human consumption is riddled in worms in your part of the world, again be careful. In the UK at least, worm infestations in raw meat intended for human consumption is not the problem it used to be. And again, a schedule of worming will prevent any problems anyway.

By the way, no carnivore lives on a pure meat diet - not even cats and martens. Meat alone is severely calcium deficient and will destroy an animal in short order. Maybe you meant carcase only diet or meat products only?

Sorry, but wolves and other primary predators are also carcase eaters by preference (meaning it's their preferred prey unless very hungry). Maybe we should call them carcaseivores. You infer that dogs and all other predators can not be purely carcaseivores/carnivorous as "only" cats and martens are primarily obligate carnivores. What about the Crocodillia? Varanidae? And yes by choice, Canis family.

Ungulates are the primary prey of the Grey Wolf (Canis lupus) and should form the basis of any dog's diet. Dogs are simply domesticated wolves, and their physiology reflects this. You reject my statements but again provide no proof. Can you show me a source showing that wolves are omnivorous by design where their normal prey (ungulates) are present in appropriate numbers?

You try to divert attention from facts with broad sweeping statements, but yet provide no proof of this.
Respectfully yours,

Lee

#30 mick the fish

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 05:21 pm

pork gives my dogs the shits :sick: even pigs ears
some good advice on her lads :clapper:



cheers mick ;)




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