Mr_Logic 5 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 243 WSSM is rare, eats barrels and I have heard talk of poor accuracy as well. So I'd avoid! Link to post
RicW 67 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 243 WSSM is rare, eats barrels and I have heard talk of poor accuracy as well. So I'd avoid! Fair comment. It hits over 4050 fps with 55 grain! I was thinking fast twist and stick to long heavy HP, as a dedicated deer gun. Ric Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, so is it ever worth the grief? I suspect not, which I suspect is why it's died out PDQ! Link to post
Guest Fireball Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 So what you been knocking over with your new varmint calibre Logic?? Or is it still at the theory stage,lol. Link to post
RicW 67 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, so is it ever worth the grief? I suspect not, which I suspect is why it's died out PDQ! Mr Logic - I like your logic! Even the Wiki entry queried whether there is room in the market for two such similar 6mm rounds. Theory bows to practical knowledge. Shotgun, I withdraw the suggestion. I stand by the idea of getting a fast twist barrel though, 1-in-10 or even 1-in-8. It will stabilise the longer, ie heavier, bullets which you will be loading for deer. Ric Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, No you can not. John Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, No you can not. John LoadID Bullet Powder Velocity 11371 Hornady V-Max IMR 3031 3415 fps 8257 Nosler Ballistic Silvertip IMR 4064 0 fps 9007 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 4025 fps 9279 Nosler Ballistic Tip IMR 4064 0 fps 9972 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H414 4060 fps 10257 Nosler Ballistic Tip Vihtavuori N140 4067 fps 10259 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H4895 3600 fps 11163 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H414 3960 fps 11260 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 0 fps 11367 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H380 3934 fps 11368 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H414 3950 fps 11369 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3653 fps 2089 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H380 3589 fps 2090 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H380 3683 fps 2091 Nosler Ballistic Tip Alliant Reloader 15 3337 fps 2092 Nosler Ballistic Tip Alliant Reloader 15 3493 fps 2093 Nosler Ballistic Tip Alliant Reloader 15 3681 fps 2094 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3589 fps 2095 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3686 fps 2096 Nosler Ballistic Tip Vihtavuori N540 3536 fps ======================================= LoadID Bullet Powder Velocity 2097 Nosler Ballistic Tip Vihtavuori N540 3726 fps 2100 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3231 fps 2101 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3378 fps 2102 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3590 fps 2103 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3671 fps 2104 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3783 fps 2105 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3877 fps 2106 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 3958 fps 2107 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 4048 fps 6368 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H414 3950 fps 6369 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H380 4010 fps 6370 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Varget 4000 fps 6371 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon BL-C(2) 4025 fps 6372 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H4895 4058 fps 6373 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon Benchmark 3815 fps 7436 Nosler Ballistic Tip IMR 4064 3900 fps 8189 Nosler Ballistic Tip Hodgdon H414 3800 fps 9916 Nosler CT Ballistic Tip Moly Hodgdon H414 4054 fps 9969 Sierra Blitzking IMR 4064 3910 fps No? I can count 10 there. Link to post
dicehorn 38 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, No you can not. John Perhaps John meant to add 'that is UK deer legal'? Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, No you can not. John Perhaps John meant to add 'that is UK deer legal'? Maybe Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) But the thing is you can hit 4000fps with a regular 243, No you can not. John No? I can count 10 there. Okay and which one of the loads are okay for the OP to use? May I also point out that unless you publish the bullets weights and source of load data it's as much use as a blue lemon. The other issue is that in ten years of reloading I have yet to actual get the same velocity as published in my reloading manuals and further more I would suggest you data to be completely inaccurate. Having just checked ten reloading manuals, there is not one which published data suggesting 4000 fps + velocity for any .243" load. I'll pick one at random, the Hogdon 26th edition manual. HIGHEST velocity using Hogdon powder is 3735 fps for a 60 grain bullet / 3613 for a 70 grain bullet and OBVIOUSLY all velocities reduce after that to the 115 grain bullet which is published at 2802 fps. IMR powders 3711 fps (60 grain). Winchester powders 3659 fps (60 grain). Hercules powders 3602 fps (60 grain). Simply your reloading data has not match on any PUBLISHED authentic and genuine recommended load in ANY of my reloading manuals. I too have quick load and could run a fictitious reloading model but also know that unless I have chronographed the round, I would not publish the data. And for a 55 grain bullet: 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H414 .243" 2.650" 45.0 3611 37,400 CUP 50.0 3950 51,600 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Winchester 760 .243" 2.650" 45.0 3611 37,400 CUP 50.0 3950 51,600 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4007 SSC .243" 2.650" 45.6 3515 38,800 CUP 48.5C 3834 48,300 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H380 .243" 2.650" 46.0 3704 40,600 CUP 51.0 4010 48,700 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Varget .243" 2.650" 41.0 3776 42,000 CUP 45.0 4000 50,000 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4320 .243" 2.650" 40.0 3603 48,600 CUP 45.5 3876 49,800 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4064 .243" 2.650" 39.5 3554 41,300 CUP 44.0 3875 51,200 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon BL-C(2) .243" 2.650" 43.0 3779 42,600 CUP 47.0 4025 49,400 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4895 .243" 2.650" 40.0 3599 42,100 CUP 44.0 3877 50,200 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H4895 .243" 2.650" 40.0 3638 35,100 CUP 44.5 4058 49,300 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 3031 .243" 2.650" 37.0 3520 38,300 CUP 40.5 3864 50,900 CUP 55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Benchmark You will note MAX loads showing a max velocity of 4058 fps, now load it up and chronograph it and you'll be below 4000 fps. Your obviously not far from me, so I'll even put my money where my mouth is and take you up the range and test the load accross three chronographs all connected up to a dandy laptop. John Edited August 22, 2009 by HUnter_zero Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Let me reverse your first question, where did you state that the 4000 fps barrier had to be useable to the OP? You made a blanket statement in reply to Mr Logic that you could not send a .243 over 4000 fps. Also, that data has not come from any loading manual anywhere. It comes from an online database of loads that individuals have made, tested and used. Before you say they could be just saying that, well yes they could, I just used that as an example of a published load. What is not possibly fiction is me watching a chronograph when a close friend puts his .243 through it, 4012 fps. If you had explained your reply, just one sentence more then I would not have had cause to argue Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 It comes from an online database of loads that individuals have made, tested and used. Before you say they could be just saying that, well yes they could, I just used that as an example of a published load. What is not possibly fiction is me watching a chronograph when a close friend puts his .243 through it, 4012 fps. I amazes me that some online shooters either always shoot 1/8th" groups or 200 yard neck shots all of the time My advice is not to believe all you read about how rifles and load preform, unless from a certifiable and genuine source. What load was your mate using? (powder / bullet / primer / case) I can then run the info in quick load. How many rounds did he chronograph? Did all the round cross over 4000 fps? What were the final groups and how many rounds were shot to achieve the best group? To look at it another way, I can produce a real hot load that will run a 55 grain bullet through a 1 in 12 twist, the bullet might hit 4000 fps, I could load it hotter and run it to 4100 fps and even further but it would not be safe and would not be accurate. The .243" will run at around 3800 fps and in fact there are very few rounds that will run at 4000 fps + consistently. John Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You know, I wasn't going to bother running up a 55gr load, but I think I will now... Take me a little time to get the components sorted out but once I have, we shall see! Now, one other point about this - when RicW said about WSSM, we are talking figures from reloading data, not chronoed stuff by him or his mate, so let's talk like for like shall we? In which case, the 243 most certainly does do 4000fps - go on Hodgon's website, search under 243 and 55 grain bullet weight. Now, I agree that generally you don't get published velocities, but mostly i don't have the same barrel length either. With my 308, which as 26 inch barrel not 24 as per the manual, my BLC2 load was considerably faster than the max load. Now I grant you, it shot like shit, but it did go damn fast. my Varget load was pretty close to published data (IIRC about 35fps short) too. The other thing is, did I say with my original post "243 will do over 4000fps consistently and accurately"...? Nope, don't think you'll find I did. And neither will 243 WSSM, which I have already said has been reported by some to have accuracy and barrel life issues anyway. And Ric - in terms of deer loads, the 243 will stabilize a 100gr SP anyway, with a 1:10 twist (which is the norm for 243). You only really need a faster twist for VLD bullets, which are longer, or for anything over 100gr. 243 does shoot a lighter bullet better, I have found with a couple of rifles and info from others anyway, but it does shoot a 100gr just about acceptably. Link to post
Guest Fireball Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 ive been offerd the chance to control some fallow deer so what would you recomend as the best caliber firearms officer says a can get prettymuch what ever a want looking for summit cheap to reload an buy prefer something not to thumpy i normally shoot with a 22 250 but thats not legal o an a done this on ma phone couldnt find full stops lol cheers stuart Remember boy`s what the initial post was about. For all the one`s that are lost in there own little world its the text above,lol. So no need for pasting the reloading charts pish in an attempt at trying to convince folk that its a more complex than what it actualy is Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You know, I wasn't going to bother running up a 55gr load, but I think I will now... Take me a little time to get the components sorted out but once I have, we shall see! the 243 most certainly does do 4000fps - go on Hodgon's website, search under 243 and 55 grain bullet weight. Now, I agree that generally you don't get published velocities, . I have already given the 55 grain data your refer too John Link to post
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