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Springers with no papers


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#31 hily

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 05:27 pm

i have never had a springer without papers as i always believed this proved quality of worker and such what a load of codswhallop sp.
the last springer i had had 2 ftch in line and cost an arm and a leg now not wanting to sound faceitious it was tosh completely untrainable too high strung
i have at the moment 2 labs one of which is papered the other came from pedigreed paretnts but the dam was caught in her first season so the kc would not register the pups this dog is one of the best i have had the pleasure of working with she's keen as mustard hunts well and retrieves like a gud un so as far as the k.c. and their obsession with bloodlines go i couldnt give a tosh the ability of the animal to do the jobit was bred for has to be paramount in my opinion.

mybe you should stick to labs as most spanials are high as a kite . can't win on here one says ftch in ped then not enough drive then your coments opposite :wallbash:

#32 nelly76

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 08:16 pm

i have never had a springer without papers as i always believed this proved quality of worker and such what a load of codswhallop sp.
the last springer i had had 2 ftch in line and cost an arm and a leg now not wanting to sound faceitious it was tosh completely untrainable too high strung
i have at the moment 2 labs one of which is papered the other came from pedigreed paretnts but the dam was caught in her first season so the kc would not register the pups this dog is one of the best i have had the pleasure of working with she's keen as mustard hunts well and retrieves like a gud un so as far as the k.c. and their obsession with bloodlines go i couldnt give a tosh the ability of the animal to do the jobit was bred for has to be paramount in my opinion.

mybe you should stick to labs as most spanials are high as a kite . can't win on here one says ftch in ped then not enough drive then your coments opposite http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
true ive only had 6 springers and 4 cockers over the last 25 year so maybe i do know nowt i suppose all i was trying to say was that i think we hold too much in the pedigree system that is in place does a piece of paper really truly matter if the dogs doing what its meant to and doing it well

#33 hily

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:07 pm

i have never had a springer without papers as i always believed this proved quality of worker and such what a load of codswhallop sp.
the last springer i had had 2 ftch in line and cost an arm and a leg now not wanting to sound faceitious it was tosh completely untrainable too high strung
i have at the moment 2 labs one of which is papered the other came from pedigreed paretnts but the dam was caught in her first season so the kc would not register the pups this dog is one of the best i have had the pleasure of working with she's keen as mustard hunts well and retrieves like a gud un so as far as the k.c. and their obsession with bloodlines go i couldnt give a tosh the ability of the animal to do the jobit was bred for has to be paramount in my opinion.

mybe you should stick to labs as most spanials are high as a kite . can't win on here one says ftch in ped then not enough drive then your coments opposite http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
true ive only had 6 springers and 4 cockers over the last 25 year so maybe i do know nowt i suppose all i was trying to say was that i think we hold too much in the pedigree system that is in place does a piece of paper really truly matter if the dogs doing what its meant to and doing it well
I still think without any sort of selective breeding ie pedigree system then you would not have at least a basis with wich you would be able to choose a type of dog that has some ability to be a gundog .yes its not perfect but it is better than takeing a dog by accepting the sellers word only.did all the dogs you have had in the past come with a ped and if so then you must have had some faith in the kc sytem at one time. so has one dud springer and one good lab changed your mind its easy to say its a good un without papers but i bet you if you go back a generation in the labs history you will find a kc blood line to call bloodlines tosh then to state that the ability to do the job the animal was BRED for is paramount in your pinion, is contradictory.atb.

#34 nelly76

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:55 pm

i have never had a springer without papers as i always believed this proved quality of worker and such what a load of codswhallop sp.
the last springer i had had 2 ftch in line and cost an arm and a leg now not wanting to sound faceitious it was tosh completely untrainable too high strung
i have at the moment 2 labs one of which is papered the other came from pedigreed paretnts but the dam was caught in her first season so the kc would not register the pups this dog is one of the best i have had the pleasure of working with she's keen as mustard hunts well and retrieves like a gud un so as far as the k.c. and their obsession with bloodlines go i couldnt give a tosh the ability of the animal to do the jobit was bred for has to be paramount in my opinion.

mybe you should stick to labs as most spanials are high as a kite . can't win on here one says ftch in ped then not enough drive then your coments opposite http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
true ive only had 6 springers and 4 cockers over the last 25 year so maybe i do know nowt i suppose all i was trying to say was that i think we hold too much in the pedigree system that is in place does a piece of paper really truly matter if the dogs doing what its meant to and doing it well
I still think without any sort of selective breeding ie pedigree system then you would not have at least a basis with wich you would be able to choose a type of dog that has some ability to be a gundog .yes its not perfect but it is better than takeing a dog by accepting the sellers word only.did all the dogs you have had in the past come with a ped and if so then you must have had some faith in the kc sytem at one time. so has one dud springer and one good lab changed your mind its easy to say its a good un without papers but i bet you if you go back a generation in the labs history you will find a kc blood line to call bloodlines tosh then to state that the ability to do the job the animal was BRED for is paramount in your pinion, is contradictory.atb.
yeah your right it is contradictory its a real mindbender and your right that i always picked my dogs based on their pedigree and i dare say that if i did'nt know the sire and the dam of my new lab i probably wouldnt have touched it with a bargepole but saying that the kennel club in my opinion have got us to the point of fear that a dog with no registration is useless which is clearly not the truth.i think the whole system needs a complete overhaul easy enough said i know but still.....anyway just my 2 bobs worth atb

#35 hily

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 08:00 am

mybe their is a case for trials conducted on the same lines as kc but the dog can be of any type without paperwork and still be awarded ftch status .Don't know if any of the kc judges would be willing it sure would put a spanner in the works .

#36 welshboy454

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 08:03 am

mybe their is a case for trials conducted on the same lines as kc but the dog can be of any type without paperwork and still be awarded ftch status .Don't know if any of the kc judges would be willing it sure would put a spanner in the works .

I think that is an excellent idea.

#37 rickyspringer

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 12:35 pm

me too, great idea. i think its unfair that a dog without paperwork can't compete, as long as there is proof its the same dog, whats stopping it competing!!

#38 welshboy454

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 06:11 pm

me too, great idea. i think its unfair that a dog without paperwork can't compete, as long as there is proof its the same dog, whats stopping it competing!!

How do you prove it is the same dog even if it has paperwork- there are no photos !

#39 rickyspringer

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 06:57 pm

come-on welshboy, simple...check the micro chip.

#40 nelly76

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 05:20 pm

now that hily is a very good idea.
can you see any of the game fairs allowing such a trial....i think yes.
as for kc judging think they will turn there noses up..but you never know.i can see the looks on their faces if a non k.c. dog went up against and beat a ftch
that would be hilarious :D

#41 hily

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:25 pm

if such an event took place and assume all dogs are say spanials to show no favoritism then the judges should not know if a dog is kc reg or not and even better it would be very interesting if a trial was arranged and all the dogs where not kc reg and again the judges not told i think the result if any would be a true reflectoin of the dog and not any pre concieved idea as what the result should be.I think we all know it will never happen but you never know someone may see this and know a few judges even if they have retired from the scene or a couple who dont like the way trialing is going .If it did kick off then would it start a new ellitism or even inverted snobbery amongs the mongrel owners ;)

#42 waidmann

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 07:42 am

i know of a guy who ran the mother in the daughters place on a trial( the young bitch was crap in the water).the judge noticed a change in style and asked to see the tattoo number in her ear,sussed. but how often does this type of thing happen without being found out? sibling dogs being ran on different trials? any system is prone to being abused and the audacity of some people is beyond belief.
all in all i'm for the registering of dogs achievments with an organisation.
we need some measure.
we can't all know a breeder of working dogs.


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