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#46 aaronpigeonplucker

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 06:01 pm

in some cases deer cause a lot of damage to farmers crops just as rabbits do. so why not class a deer in the same categories as rabbits? just beacause deer are bigger and more majestic looking, dosent meen thjat they do any less damage to crops as rabbits do. this is not a case of "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" :no:

#47 ferret1

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:40 pm

I am not a Deer stalker so i am not in postition to comment on legal side of this and i would be interested to see how people that have put post on this topic are stalkers. I have however been controlling Rabbits, Foxes and other vermin for over 20 years and have had to at times cull during the summer cubs and baby rabbits. This has to be done and is part of what do and offer as vermin control. If we did nt do it for the land owners that rely on us they would find someone that would then you end up with nothing to do and nowhere to hunt when you wanted too. As this was pest control and Deker was paid to do a job of work it had to be done wether people think it wrong or right.

#48 Dawn B

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:35 pm

They are just babies, its the spikers that do the damage, not babies. Im a fan of stalking and Deer management, but Im not a fan of killing babies.

#49 HUnter_zero

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:42 am

Obviously a very emotive subject. Being both a professional pest controller and deer stalker I can see both sides of this debate.
To a pest controller, young, old, healthy or sick it makes no difference because the client is paying to rid their home or land of pests. I doubt the OP was being paid to carry out this work and so falls in to the category of recreational deer stalker or amateur deer stalker.
It is very interesting that no one would bat an eye lid should the OP had shot fox cubs, a common and widely excepted practice. That is not to say that I would have taken the roe fawn, I would not have but I am interested in deer management and not deer control or slaying.
The roe fawn would have done no damage at all, to think or base any justification for killing the fawn on crop / land protection would suggest that the OP is very inexperienced, an observation that can been seen by taking a .243" for red stag. Again, that's not to say the .243" will not kill a red stag, just not many professional/experienced stalkers would pick a .243" as their calibre of preference against the mighty reds.
It is also interesting that deer are being headed "vermin", deer are neither game or vermin. Deer are venison or beasts of the chase and as such have their own protective laws, deer may well be pests but not vermin.
As luck would have it, the OP dislikes the early starts :blink: so with any luck the roe population will continue to grow.

John

#50 MonikaHunter

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 07:12 am

In Poland as agreed with the law hunting schedul the season for roe deer doe, kid and red hind and calf starts on the 1st of October. I think this is realy good time for that.

#51 dave123

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:29 am

Obviously a very emotive subject. Being both a professional pest controller and deer stalker I can see both sides of this debate.
To a pest controller, young, old, healthy or sick it makes no difference because the client is paying to rid their home or land of pests. I doubt the OP was being paid to carry out this work and so falls in to the category of recreational deer stalker or amateur deer stalker.
It is very interesting that no one would bat an eye lid should the OP had shot fox cubs, a common and widely excepted practice. That is not to say that I would have taken the roe fawn, I would not have but I am interested in deer management and not deer control or slaying.
The roe fawn would have done no damage at all, to think or base any justification for killing the fawn on crop / land protection would suggest that the OP is very inexperienced, an observation that can been seen by taking a .243" for red stag. Again, that's not to say the .243" will not kill a red stag, just not many professional/experienced stalkers would pick a .243" as their calibre of preference against the mighty reds.
It is also interesting that deer are being headed "vermin", deer are neither game or vermin. Deer are venison or beasts of the chase and as such have their own protective laws, deer may well be pests but not vermin.
As luck would have it, the OP dislikes the early starts http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... so with any luck the roe population will continue to grow.

John

:clapper: :clapper:

the 243 is a good allround deer calibre ,plenty of red stags & fallows been killed with this
calidre .Remember this POP..placement over power . Its the man behind the triger wat makes the call . :angel:

#52 HUnter_zero

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:03 pm

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

the 243 is a good allround deer calibre ,plenty of red stags & fallows been killed with this
calidre .Remember this POP..placement over power . Its the man behind the triger wat makes the call . http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...



AS I mainly shoot Exmoor Red's I feel a certain ability to comment on this. The .243" will kill reds, no doubt at all but the 6.5 or .308 is MUCH better and the rifle I pick up every time I go after reds with the .243" for roe.
I would be very interested to hear where you stalk red deer?
Bullet placement isn't that bigger issue as the kill zone of a red is a little over 12" and a shot any where in that zone will kill the deer. The little .22rf will effectively kill a deer IF you place the bullet in the correct position on the animals body, however legislation apart I think you will undoubtedly agree that a .22rf is not suitable, why is that?


John

#53 Tallyho

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:50 pm

difficult one this , my personal veiw is it should of been left but it wasnt my call so you done what you thought you had to , but what i cant understand is lots of people killing young cubs but that seems to be exeptable , a young animal is a young animal reguardless of what species you dont hear peopel slagging off the ones killing cubs .

#54 Guest_Fireball_*

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:10 pm

would suggest that the OP is very inexperienced, an observation that can been seen by taking a .243" for red stag. Again, that's not to say the .243" will not kill a red stag, just not many professional/experienced stalkers would pick a .243" as their calibre of preference against the mighty reds.
It is also interesting that deer are being headed "vermin", deer are neither game or vermin. Deer are venison or beasts of the chase and as such have their own protective laws, deer may well be pests but not vermin.
As luck would have it, the OP dislikes the early starts http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... so with any luck the roe population will continue to grow.

John


I totally agree with what you have wrote John ;) Not many would look at it from that point of view unless they were experienced in dealing with large beasts.
The thing that gets me the most though is that he {Deker} proclaimed himself a professional :laugh: :laugh:
It took me less than one season regularly controlling Deer to decide that the 243 is not the tool for the all round Deer stalker. A good foxing round that's for sure but no complete Deer rifle that's a certainty.
I have to agree with our Dawn too Deker is a baby killer..

#55 Ali N

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:49 pm

not sure where this sits in this argument, but what about when various bodies inn scotland decree an area of forestry has to be cleared of deer and stalkers are brought in to clear the palce regardless of sexes and seasons. is that not a similar situation. And if illegal should these government bodies not eb held to account

#56 Fidgety

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:04 pm

"I have to agree with our Dawn too Deker is a baby killer.. "

ANTHROPROMORPHISM ............

#57 bedrock

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:11 pm

Last summer we were controlling fox on a local estate, which I don’t like doing because of the thick cover, flies and sweltering heat. We dug to a milky vixen with 4 cubs witch were all dispatched as humanly ass possible. This made me question what I do and made me think if all the money time blood sweat and tears that I put into hunting. Is it worth it.
No one likes doing anything like this and know one is proud of it but it has to be done. Debate is a good thing but don’t give Deker a hard time this thread is educational and shows people the other side to deer management. :thumbs: Atb bedrock

#58 bedrock

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:41 pm

They are just babies, its the spikers that do the damage, not babies. Im a fan of stalking and Deer management, but Im not a fan of killing babies.



"I have to agree with our Dawn too Deker is a baby killer.. "

ANTHROPROMORPHISM ............


I think some people need to grow up and except the truth. Wildlife management isn’t all smiles and romantic prancing around the woods. If you haven’t got anything constructive to add to the post please don’t say anything.

bedrock

#59 Fidgety

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:47 pm

Well said :clapper: :clapper: Bedrock!

Edited by Fidgety, 13 August 2009 - 10:53 pm.


#60 john robbo

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:39 am

People keep harping on about killing fox cubs god knows i,ve killed more than my fair share and revell in it .but the BIG difference here is the damage mum and dad have done to feed the little bast55rds to any size. Just look around the hole enterence.Also i will have tried every means of getting mum and dad before i deal with the litter.FOXES do damage at every stage in thier life either directly or in directly. And should be killed at every oppertunity.
I am involved in deer management and know this gose on but little bambi was a long way from doing any damage and a photo of this nature Should not have been posted. Also if he,d gone back later in the season he could soon have located this deer and shot it when it wieghed another 10 lb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by john robbo, 14 August 2009 - 08:28 am.



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