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Guest CharlieC

sounds like your getting to the root of the problem smally, and she looks to be retrieveing a lot better too :good::good:

 

good news, keep us posted on her progress :good:

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smallmouth, out of curiosity, how are you rewarding the dog for retrieving when she does bring it to hand? I mean, what's the trade off for the dog? The other odds and ends she brings are different TO HER for some reason- it's fun and not structured probably. I would imagine the dog believes you're going to take it away and no benefits to her. A 5 yard deficit to hand- she hits the zone where she feels you can get it from her and stays back.

 

For sport and police dogs, we use two dummies like your "bottle game" and the dog gets to pursue the other only when they return the first to hand- a game that creates speed and precision that puts motivation into retrieving to hand for the dog. It's the only retrieving they do and you are the center of it all but to hand always. We do use the dummies as a reward, it creates speed/drive in all the other things as well. Hope you sort it out, sounds like you've got it coming already but just food for thought and another perspective. Best of luck.

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smallmouth it seems to me that the bitch assosiates the dummy as her reward and like most collie crosses when they think something is just so it is hard to convince them otherwise ... i would keep the dummy away from her for a few weeks and stop all retreve training i would concentrate on other training like get back or heel work or down stay or whatever you fancy and use FOOD TREATS ..... she will in a very short time realise that she is working for a food treat .... then go back to the dummy and retrieve training having first done a little bit of stay with a treat before you show her the dummy .... the bitch will know you have treats and when the dummy is tossed out she will want to bring it back in exchange for a treat .... so in essence she is putting the dummy below the treats in order of preference .... just something that worked for me .... once you have esrablished this you slowly remove the treats till in the end you have a dog that automatically retrieves to hand .............

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Dont know if this will help but! i been training spaniels for 15 years now and nine times out of ten poor retrieves are down to over doing it,now i know nothing about lurchers but it goes for most dogs 2-3 retrievs is more than enough during training for a spaniel per training session,my training sessions only last 20mins anight and if he/she doesnt behave they dont get the retrieve at all .they soon learn if they do as they told they get more retrieves,but saying that i always start my young dogs retrieves standing (throwing) send the dog then kneel down and give her the whistle to come back whith dummy eventually u can stand and they fly back right to palm.

 

but like i said i know nothing about lurchers or there training so i might be talking b#ll#cks

 

:11:

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how are you rewarding the dog for retrieving when she does bring it to hand?

 

Lots of praise.

 

what's the trade off for the dog?  The other odds and ends she brings are different TO HER for some reason- it's fun and not structured probably.

 

I think you’re right, however she does seem to really enjoy the structured training. Now I’ve cut the retrieves right back she’s constantly pestering me to get the dummy out of my pocket unless there’s something more interesting to do, in her case the only thing more interesting is hunting live game.

 

I would imagine the dog believes you're going to take it away and no benefits to her.  A 5 yard deficit to hand- she hits the zone where she feels you can get it from her and stays back.

 

Spot on, that’s the impression I have, her behaviour suggests possessiveness.

 

For sport and police dogs, we use two dummies…..and the dog gets to pursue the other only when they return the first to hand

 

Now that sounds very interesting, I can imagine it working well on some breeds, I imagine my old GSD bitch would’ve loved it……..but it might be a bit risky with a dog that’s 50% greyhound.

 

it seems to me that the bitch assosiates the dummy as her reward and like most collie crosses when they think something is just so it is hard to convince them otherwise

 

Spot on I reckon. I think she prizes the dummy so much because she doesn’t get to have it very often, the dilemma is that the more I restrict the retrieve training - the higher the value of the dummy to her.

 

when the dummy is tossed out she will want to bring it back in exchange for a treat .... so in essence she is putting the dummy below the treats in order of preference

 

The thing with this dog is she lives in and is a spoiled pet and so doesn’t place that high a value on food generally anyway. The only thing I use treats for now is after a good response to the acme gundog whistle, which is only used for the one emergency command, “get straight back here now!” Even with that she often accepts the food, then spits it straight back out, it’s almost just a symbolic gesture these days, she seems to work on the training field for the love of it, and praise.

 

That said, a high value treat like cheese might work better. I’ve not tried food incentives though, because I’ve read somewhere that exchanging dummies for treats results in a dog that drops short in anticipation of food? That said, dropping short would be better than standing off!

 

i been training spaniels for 15 years now and nine times out of ten poor retrieves are down to over doing it, now i know nothing about lurchers but it goes for most dogs 2-3 retrievs is more than enough during training for a spaniel per training session

 

I reckon the same principle applies to lurchers, except more so, some lurcher training opinion suggests that 2-3 retrieves a week could be over doing it! But gundog training information is a help and I read everything I come across. I should buy a gundog training book really. What would you recommend, preferably with an emphasis on retrieving?

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Guest chilli

training my pup at the mo an iam useing food and 2 squeaky toys for the reward for [bANNED TEXT] he does something correctly . i like u keep the mutts inside an they get spoilt rotten but ive had words with the gf an they get feed once a day now an ive been seeing a change in them both the older dog is gettin real into her food were she never use to bother ! with the pup he has to do certain handle signals (building up to whistle ) and if he does this correctly an calmly he gets a squeaky toy something i only give him [bANNED TEXT] he has done good an only for a while to keep him kean , this seems to be workin so wat iam trying to say is u thought of changeing things an comin at her from a different angle ?

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I was thinking about this some more in the early hours of this morning.

 

It occurred to me, that the fact that I’m still messing with this bitch, and also that she’s still very keen on training exercises, is probably a sad reflection on the relatively little proper work she’s had. This bitch will be 2 years old next month! When does the training stop?

 

When I think back on my past 3 lurchers, I just got them through the basics to a point I was happy with, then started to think about starting them. In every case I’d stopped messing about with “football field” training by about a year old and each one had self started by accident on a mxyi or young rabbit a few months before then. Their retrieves of rabbits and birds were mostly OK, I never fretted over it anyway.

 

I’m not stressing over this bitch either, just aiming for the best we can achieve because I might as well. I’ve got plenty of tips to try out now and the summer to mess about with them.........

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