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#16 Night Hunter

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 03:59 pm

Well folks here is the reply i recieved today and as you see its like the DCS have got the government brainwashed and they will be able to extort money from scottish stalkers. but the foreign Trophy Hunters will be welcome shoot our deer for us .......... :realmad:



Dear Mr Smith

WILDLIFE & NATURAL HERITAGE BILL

Thank you for your two notes, sent by electronic mail, on 21 June to my colleague Steven MacGregor in which you raise several issues in relation to the deer management proposals contained within the draft Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill.

The proposal to require a stalker to demonstrate that he is fit and competent to shoot deer is intended to improve the level of skills among stalkers and to formalise the minimum standards required. Despite the recent progress in the development of Codes of Best practice and in the provision of voluntary training, as well as the traditional mentoring which you describe, there is concern over the welfare of deer during culling. Furthermore, there have been three fatalities associated with deer stalking in the last four years. The introduction of a register of competence together with a systematic training regime, is intended to ensure public confidence in deer stalking in Scotland.

The Regulatory Impact Assessment within the consultation identifies the likely cost of assessment as £80 and the training course as about £250, although the costs of training providers may vary. Whilst Scottish Ministers are mindful of the need to minimize costs to individuals and rural businesses, such charges are not recurring, and would not represent a very large component in the overall costs associated with this activity. If you have further information on this we would be pleased to have it.

I should emphasise that any stalker who already has the requisite skills need only be assessed and registered as such. Consequently there would be no requirement for him to undertake and pay for training in skills which he already held. The DCS has also held voluntary seminars on deer management in order to assess and improve skills.

As you point out, the proposals permit a person who has not yet demonstrated competence to shoot under supervision thereby gaining valuable experience to complement the training. Furthermore, it is only right that foreign licences will also be recognised in Scotland where there is equivalence.

The rise in deer numbers needs to be managed and there are other proposals, such as the changes to the deer management regime through deer management groups, are intended to address this.

Finally your comments will of course be taken into account as a reply to the consultation on the draft Bill, and we do of course look forward to receiving further responses from other interested parties. To that end can I ask you to complete our standard respondee form (attd at the end of the acknowledgment letter below) and return to wildlifebill@scotland.gsi.gov.uk


<<B3008901.doc>>


Yours sincerely



ANDREW L TAYLOR

Scottish Government Rural Directorate

Landscape & Habitats - Species Management

Area 1A - VQ

Tel: 0131 244 6115

GTN 7188 46115






********************************************************

#17 2434me

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 11:14 pm

I have spoken to BASC Scotland today who are fully opposed to this Bill. They are compiling a response which should be out shortly but we must all make a stand against this as the implications are far greater than deer stalking in Scotland as there may well be a ripple effect in England . Not only that as it is an Animal Welfare Bill it could eventually lead to some sort of qualification for lamping foxes etc................

There are currently 1700 stalkers with DMQ LEVEL 2 awarded and another 1700 part completed at the minute.

If you value your stalking I would seriously think about gaining the necessary qualifications as if not you could be seriously pissed off in the future.


cut and paste quote !
"Where the approaches of BASC and DCS diverge is in the consideration of the delivery of demonstration of competence. BASC supports the voluntary approach and, to date, this has proven to be successful. So far, 12,500 individuals have attained DMQ Level 1 and 2,500 DMQ Level 2. We believe that endorsement of this voluntary approach by DCS would lead to even greater numbers of practitioners becoming qualified, thereby demonstrating competence. We also support DCS’s Best Practice initiative and feel that this complements the voluntary approach to DMQ qualifications. So far, Best Practice has 1,800 subscribers."

15000 passed 1 or 2 so far !!! It may be unpopular for some ,but its gathering speed !

Edited by 2434me, 24 June 2009 - 10:49 am.


#18 macberran

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 06:05 am

I thought the DMQ 1 and 2 WERE agreed standards. Are there not members sitting on the BASC chair and DCS and SNH. Stinks of money grabbing jobs for boys . This has all been discussed on another forum so I will not be drawn here. You are obviously speaking as one who has helped or been partie too the proposals and support there-off. Shame on you

#19 2434me

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 06:25 am

"Shame on WHO ?"

If it was my post then it is a simple cut and paste to update numbers .

#20 macberran

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 06:54 am

Sorry chap looking back I could swear it was started by Wireviz.

#21 macberran

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 07:04 am

Again apologies I misread the "if" at the start of the sentence, rushing to get to work.. Still your last post does not make s e n c e t o m e . You talk of we. That tells me that you or infers you are or aspire to be in ,the chair/ council for the BASC.
I suppose the missing Quotation marks could mean you are just that, quoting, however this is not clear on your post. Which is it. Are you "we" or are we "quoting".

#22 2434me

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 10:50 am

Again apologies I misread the "if" at the start of the sentence, rushing to get to work.. Still your last post does not make s e n c e t o m e . You talk of we. That tells me that you or infers you are or aspire to be in ,the chair/ council for the BASC.
I suppose the missing Quotation marks could mean you are just that, quoting, however this is not clear on your post. Which is it. Are you "we" or are we "quoting".


Fair point !! Hope its a bit clearer now

#23 macberran

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 10:55 am

Indeed , sometimes these keyboards do not do our intentions/meanings justice, ATB. :thumbs:

#24 J Darcy

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 05:14 pm

Bottom line: Its bugger all to do with deer management, or indeed deer welfare....Only money!!


I predicted something like this would happen some years ago, the deer welfare lot looking to the law to stipulate we must all PAY to be TRAINED!!

FFS i know lads stalking all their lives and do not have a qualification. And others that are DSC2 examiners that know sweet FA!!!!

I have spoke at length to a few experts in the deer tents and have found their "holier than thou" attitude did little to disguise the fact that they knew very little.
A true deer obsessed person, like most guys on here, could have had them in knots!!


the BDS are a useless set of money grabbers too IMO.
They will have their fingers in the pie too i should imagine.

Shame... just who are the people who dream up such silly "Rules"
Do they ever get up at 4am and go a-stalking?
I very much doubt it.

I am sad after reading that. Let us hope things do not press ahead....JD

#25 Night Hunter

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:04 pm

Were all in this together ,get sending the letters of opposition in to the scottish parliament and let them know that they are supposed to be representing the scottish people not robbing us of our civil rights,well require a safety certificate to sit and watch the tv soon they moan that were too fat and then they take away things that encorage us to get off the armchair.......someone said earlier on THL "SHOOTING IS GOING TO BE FOR THE RICH" and it certainly is starting to look that way........ :(

#26 roebuck243

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:46 pm

Just come across this and news to me today,not good.
I have been stalking Roe for approx 30yrs , spending every year stalking and shooting roe in Scotland.I have been towing with the idea of taking my dsc1+2 not because i want to but feel that i may have to.
We have a Larder and do butcher all deer to a pretty good level.
Shooting about 400-450+ roe bucks personally over my time stalking time ,i cant believe what im reading!
I dont have any Cert and know a few stalkers exactly same .
So are you saying that dsc level 1+2 are going to be counted or will it be a new exam or test.

Edited by roebuck243, 25 June 2009 - 10:51 pm.


#27 muirheadman

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:21 pm

So a guy who shoots about 6 roe deer a year on a friends farm has to go through all this

#28 J Darcy

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:48 am

So a guy who shoots about 6 roe deer a year on a friends farm has to go through all this



it seems so....as does the man who has shot 500+....probablyt stalking before those certain "experts" knew what a deer was!!

its all down to control and money... :thumbdown:

#29 bignoel

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:44 am

mac,gregor is on hol's till 7 july

#30 macberran

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:09 am

It reeks o'pish !!


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