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open firearms cert


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#1 Guest_Magwitch_*

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 10:16 am

just renewed my firearms cert and asked for a open and the FLO said yes but what will it actually say on the cert?

#2 cyclonebri1

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:10 pm

It's what it won't say on the ticket that matters ;)
"Closed" tickets will state on land deemed suitable, or approved, or similar, an open ticket will not be so restrictive as such. ;)

#3 Sterry

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:31 pm

Sorry to hijack, but does this mean if you gain a new permission that has been cleared you can shoot there with out calling the police out to check it???

#4 arveyboy

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:27 pm

no it means that if you have the landowners permission you can shoot on any land that you deem suitable. it does not to be cleared by the police and you do not need to inform the police that you shoot there

#5 rjimmer

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:34 pm

Sorry to hijack, but does this mean if you gain a new permission that has been cleared you can shoot there with out calling the police out to check it???


Yes!

There doesn't seem to be any standardization of FAC conditions wording from Police Force to Police force or even within the same force.

The conditions on my FAC for .22 and .223 and Moderators mention 'land deemed suitable', but does not specify who should deem the land suitable.
The conditions for the .270 and .308 rifles just mentions land over which permission has been granted to shoot.
The .270 and .308 conditions mention target practice on approved ranges.
The .22 and .223 conditions mention zeroing on 'land deemed suitable' but not use on approved ranges.
At the top of both sets of conditions the word 'Unrestricted' appears.
Neither of the above conditions specify one particular piece of land, but the conditions for my long magazine shotgun does.
Life gets tedious, don't it!

Basically an 'open' (does unrestricted mean the same?)certificate passes responsilbility to the holder to make sure he/they shoots safely. A watertight third party insurance would be advisable.

If you apply, to start with, for a condition that the weapon may be used on any land where a weapon of similar or larger calibre is allready used by the owner or occupier or shooting tenant, provided that you can specify one such parcel of land on which you are allowed to shoot the weapon, you should not be refused.

Edited by rjimmer, 06 June 2009 - 04:38 pm.


#6 artic

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:43 pm

A first FAC is usually restricted and the owner may only use his rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon.

An EXPERIENCED FAC holder may be granted an ‘open licence’ which means you can use the rifle anywhere that YOU judge it to be safe and appropriate, WITHIN THE LAW.

#7 steyr223

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 09:54 pm

A first FAC is usually restricted and the owner may only use his rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon.

An EXPERIENCED FAC holder may be granted an ‘open licence’ which means you can use the rifle anywhere that YOU judge it to be safe and appropriate, WITHIN THE LAW.


i have 3 guns on my fac, point 6 7 and 8 listed below
6 22rf.................. on any suitable land over which the holder of this certificate has permission to shoot with this class of firearm............
7 the firearms and ammunition shall be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate finacial arrangements in place to meet any injury and damage claim.
8 223 basiclly the same as 22rf

there is no mention of my 270, where can i use this? do you think point 7 relates to this? does this mean i need to be in a club?

#8 riohog

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:05 pm

.270 approved ranges only

#9 artic

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 08:03 am

A first FAC is usually restricted and the owner may only use his rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon.

An EXPERIENCED FAC holder may be granted an ‘open licence’ which means you can use the rifle anywhere that YOU judge it to be safe and appropriate, WITHIN THE LAW.


i have 3 guns on my fac, point 6 7 and 8 listed below
6 22rf.................. on any suitable land over which the holder of this certificate has permission to shoot with this class of firearm............
7 the firearms and ammunition shall be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate finacial arrangements in place to meet any injury and damage claim.
8 223 basiclly the same as 22rf

there is no mention of my 270, where can i use this? do you think point 7 relates to this? does this mean i need to be in a club?


Where have you been using the .270?

What were your reasons for having this calibre?

#10 flytie

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 09:54 am

Be very careful about some of the advice being given here, not all police authorities apply the law in the same manner.

I asked the FEO for our part of Worcs about this when I recieved my open certificate. He informed me that I can shoot over land that has previously been cleared without informing him. But If I get a new permission I am to ring and check with him. Of the eight parcels of land over which I shoot, five needed no further clearance and three did, which involved a site visit from him. He assured me that if I deemed land to be cleared, then shot over it and it had not been cleared by the police for use with a centrefire, I could have my license revoked.

I am not willing to risk losing my license, so I conform with their very reasonable request to keep them informed.

ft

#11 cyclonebri1

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:27 pm

Be very careful about some of the advice being given here, not all police authorities apply the law in the same manner.

I asked the FEO for our part of Worcs about this when I recieved my open certificate. He informed me that I can shoot over land that has previously been cleared without informing him. But If I get a new permission I am to ring and check with him. Of the eight parcels of land over which I shoot, five needed no further clearance and three did, which involved a site visit from him. He assured me that if I deemed land to be cleared, then shot over it and it had not been cleared by the police for use with a centrefire, I could have my license revoked.

I am not willing to risk losing my license, so I conform with their very reasonable request to keep them informed.

ft



That contradicts what I, and I'm sure everyone else understands by the term "open cert"????

Is thier a different interpretation of the word "open" in relation to rimfire and ctrfire certification????

Doesn't this all :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: your headin???

#12 flytie

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:39 pm

That contradicts what I, and I'm sure everyone else understands by the term "open cert"????

Is thier a different interpretation of the word "open" in relation to rimfire and ctrfire certification????

Doesn't this all http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... your headin???

Check first with your FEO! Be Safe, not sorry, that's all I'm saying. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the term "Open Certificate". I clarified the matter with my FEO, I suggest you do the same. There are a lot of people who think it means that they can use a firearm wherever they choose. West Mercia Police disagree, and are prepared to prosecute.

ft

#13 artic

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 01:01 pm

That contradicts what I, and I'm sure everyone else understands by the term "open cert"????

Is thier a different interpretation of the word "open" in relation to rimfire and ctrfire certification????

Doesn't this all http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... your headin???

Check first with your FEO! Be Safe, not sorry, that's all I'm saying. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the term "Open Certificate". I clarified the matter with my FEO, I suggest you do the same. There are a lot of people who think it means that they can use a firearm wherever they choose. West Mercia Police disagree, and are prepared to prosecute.

ft

Yes most force's will have different views on this, and will allow what another police force wont.

Best to check with what force your dealing with. Ask Ask and Ask as many questions, because once that call is made to the police by who ever, well then it's too late and you could end up with nothing and a criminal record.

"I didn't know" is never a defence. The onis is on you.

Edited by artic, 09 June 2009 - 01:02 pm.


#14 steyr223

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:25 pm

A first FAC is usually restricted and the owner may only use his rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon.

An EXPERIENCED FAC holder may be granted an ‘open licence’ which means you can use the rifle anywhere that YOU judge it to be safe and appropriate, WITHIN THE LAW.


i have 3 guns on my fac, point 6 7 and 8 listed below
6 22rf.................. on any suitable land over which the holder of this certificate has permission to shoot with this class of firearm............
7 the firearms and ammunition shall be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate finacial arrangements in place to meet any injury and damage claim.
8 223 basiclly the same as 22rf

there is no mention of my 270, where can i use this? do you think point 7 relates to this? does this mean i need to be in a club?


Where have you been using the .270?

What were your reasons for having this calibre?



target shooting at the range, on my first cert, which it stipulated (as at the time i didnt have land to stalk).

on renwal, no mention on this cert apart from whats above.

270 is my old gun i had (and imported) when i lived in SA there i didnt need to stipulate as such, it was just used for hunting or target in south africa.

back to the 22rf and 223

my local gun shop says its an open ticket so i dont need aproval from the fire arms department if i have new land to shoot on, because it DOSENT say "as approved by the Firearms department""
but on my licence it says "permission to shoot with this class of firearm"
is that the farmer giving me permission to use a 223 on his land? like "no problem drive your land rover over my field" or " no just use your 22rf, i dont like the bang of your 223"
or is the farming telling me that the land has been passed for a 223 and he gives me permission

confusing

#15 flytie

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:05 pm

back to the 22rf and 223

my local gun shop says its an open ticket so i dont need aproval from the fire arms department if i have new land to shoot on, because it DOSENT say "as approved by the Firearms department""
but on my licence it says "permission to shoot with this class of firearm"
is that the farmer giving me permission to use a 223 on his land? like "no problem drive your land rover over my field" or " no just use your 22rf, i dont like the bang of your 223"
or is the farming telling me that the land has been passed for a 223 and he gives me permission

confusing

Steyr, Are you happy that some bloke down the gunshop knows what your firearms department means by its conditions? Would it not be better to ask your FEO and get the full and complete information you need?

My FAC states:
"6. The 6.5x55mm Rifle and 6.5x55 Sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for deer/fox control and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

That is the position of West Mercia, why not ask what your police authorities position is. Then you will be safe. I can guarantee you that if you are prosecuted, the chap down the gunshops advice will count for very little in court.

What is written on your FAC has nothing to do with any farmer, why would you think it has?

ft


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