Collie crosses for coursing ?
Posted 17 November 2004 - 12:13 pm
Posted 18 November 2004 - 06:57 pm
Posted 18 November 2004 - 08:59 pm
Posted 20 November 2004 - 09:47 pm
Its all down to the dogs you breed from.
What happens if your out tonight, you only have a clooie bred lurcher.Its a good night and you give it maximum work, then tommorow morning comes and you have a wander with the dog, he gets an easy few runs but the nights drawing in and its a belter of a night for a lamp, do you stay at home because you dont want to push your dog to much?? f**k no i wouldnt, id be out there exercising dog and game and if the dog got to brainy for his own good id start again with a differnt dog.
I dont treat my dogs bad, infact i love them to bits, but if they aint up to the jobs in hand whats the point in having them???
Posted 22 November 2004 - 02:57 pm
I keep collie crosses because I like them, I dont need any other reason. Ive tried allsorts of types of lurcher and all the others ive had got injured too early, i have 3 collie crosses here none of which have any injuries and they are all worked hard most days/nights of the week.
The Original post asked about hare coursing and thats what I was talking about, theres no way you can expect a half cross to run hare after hare the way a saluki cross can. itd be like trying to take a shire round the Grand National
I have pushed my dogs really hard in the past, and I have several which are buried up in the woods because of it, and an old one in the kennel (who saw a LOT of work as a younger dog, TOO much infact) who is too stiff to do much more than a couple of nights work a week, so I like to think Ive learned from those experiences that pushing your dog to and over the limits isnt allways the best thing to do
Edited by CharlieC, 22 November 2004 - 03:08 pm.
Posted 22 November 2004 - 03:10 pm
Whats the point in havin a dog if you cant push it to the limits, or at least test it as best you can???
once again Ill go back to the original question which was are collie crosses any good for coursing?
IMO : NO, a half cross is not the ideal dog for hares, and even a 3/4 is rarely good enough if you compare them with saluki crosses.
If you want a good mooching/lamping/ferreting/companion dog which can kill plenty of rabbits, and an odd hare when conditions are favourable to the dog, then a collie cross is a good choice.
Ive had saluki crosses and they were MILES better for killing hares than collie crosses, but they spent longer in the kennel due to injuries, not much point in having a dog you cant run cos its f****d either is there? :whistle: [/SIZE]
Edited by CharlieC, 22 November 2004 - 03:15 pm.
Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:35 pm
If your serious about working your dogs and you really want to see what youve got you need to test them to the best of their ability and knowing when youve got there is what defines a good dogman and bad one imo.Ive already stated that i over worked my dog, but id still test any dog of any cross i have the way i see fit and running a 3/4 bred at hares is one of the things i would like it to do.
The question wasnt asked to compare what you think is the best dog for coursing hares, it was will a collie cross, 3/4 bred grey take hares and i will stand by what ive said, it will, maybe not on the fens or it certainly wont make a match dog but it should certainly kill hares on smaller feilds and kill them well, if it dosent you need to look somewere else for a differnt strain of dogs, after all its only 1/4 collie and the 3/4 grey should make it fast enough to take hares.
I have saluki crosses now, they are far better hare dogs than my collie cross could have ever been, but he killed well into treble figures of hares, not bad for any dog were i come from.
If you dont try it you will never know, the 3/4 grey collie is still a very popular dog for running hares in tis country because they are able to do it, they make excellent all round types of dogs but you got to try it before you can make a decision and no matter what anyone says on the internet will convince me otherwise.
Ive seen plenty with my own eyes to be able to stand by what i say, ive also seen plenty that werent good enough the same applys for salukis.
Someone once said they run their dogs hard to see how bad they were, when most people run them to see how good they are, it makes sense if you think about it
Posted 24 November 2004 - 09:29 am
I have had 3/4 greyhound collies and they were faster and more determined than halfcrosses, but they lacked the stamina, and got injured more easily. certainly they are the best choice though if you are determined you want a collie cross which can take hare, as they usually have the ability, I tend to stick with halfcrosses as there arent that many hares where I hunt, (other than whiteys which the halfcrosses can kill no bother) so to raise and feed a bigger dog which can be more prone to injury is a waste of time for me. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but Id rather stick with what I have found to be successful for the type of hunting I do.
I think you would have to be very lucky to get a collie cross (of any percentage) which makes the grade as a really good hare dog. I used to hunt with a guy called Gordon, who had a very racy halfcross bitch and she could put a hare through its paces and was one of the best halfcrosses I have seen. But at the end of the day, she was no match with a good saluki cross, nor was any other collie cross Ive ever seen or owned, so in answer to the lads question, I still think collie crosses are not the best choice if you want to go coursing (and it was coursing he asked about, not run of the mill lurcherwork. )
I have a couple of collie crosses in my kennels, with regard to testing and pushing dogs to the max, I have an older dog here who saw too much work as a young dog and is now only good for an odd rabbit, although as a youngster he took all quarry and served me well.
I also have a 5 year old bitch who has been worked hard but not pushed to the absolute limit.
I can work the bitch anywhere any night of the week and she is keen, fast and kills plenty of rabbits, she will also take a hare during the day if its in a small field where she can box it and cut corners.
The dog is stiff and sore after a few good runs.
Now theres only a few years difference between these 2 dogs, so tell me, which one (If you were forced to make a choice)which one would you choose to have in your kennel ? (I know your answer would be "neither" but this is a hypothetical question )
The old dog which was pushed hard and is now of little use other than sentimental value and lining the occaisional bitch,
OR the Bitch who has never been overworked and who has many years still left in her?
I guess thats all I can say really, well have to agree to disagree Trev.
A few years ago I would have staunchly agreed with you, but I have learned the error of my ways
Edited by CharlieC, 24 November 2004 - 09:34 am.
Posted 25 November 2004 - 12:01 am
In short the colliex(3/4 grey 1/4 collie) will take hares and thats as simple as i can put the answer to the question asked, im not talking about land or anything else, just that they will take hares.
So just for you we will have to agree to disagree.
Posted 25 November 2004 - 12:14 am
Posted 25 November 2004 - 10:22 am
good post chalkwarren, makes a lot of sense!
The way I interpreted the question was that the lad was asking if 3/4 Grey collies were any good for coursing (I view coursing as fair law slips on good land, where the hares are a real match for a dog)
If he'd asked "can collie crosses catch hares"? I would have answered a very firm YES, my own dogs catch hares, most dogs can if conditions are right and as J Darcy says theres hares...............and theres hares
I referred to half crosses becuase thats the type of dog I own, and have the most experience of working with.
I have also bred and owned 3/4s and though they fared slightly better in the hare coursing stakes, they were no comparison to a good coursing dog (hence the mention of the saluki cross, to my mind it is the only sensible choice if you are wanting to get serious about the coursing game)
If collie crosses were any good for coursing, all the top lads would have them instead of carefully line bred saluki crosses
The OP seems to have left the discussion anyway, so maybe he wasnt that interested.............or maybe hes got his answer...who knows..............but you should all know better than to try and get the last word when theres a woman involved in the debate lol lol
Good hunting (whatever type of dog you have )
Edited by CharlieC, 25 November 2004 - 10:23 am.
Posted 25 November 2004 - 12:25 pm
Happy Birthday Ian btw - it was your b-day the other day wasnt it?
Posted 28 November 2004 - 01:31 pm
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