Posted 25 May 2009 - 10:39 PM
Adeyhawk, I hope the owner of the dog knows you are putting up his pics here. I know I wouldn't want somebody posting pics of my dogs without my permission, especially with me in the pics.......
Posted 26 May 2009 - 06:37 AM
Posted 27 May 2009 - 05:40 AM
And NO, you did NOT get permission from the owner of those irishes and pics. I asked him......
Posted 27 May 2009 - 06:52 AM
Please check again i have asked for permission and if the owner of the dogs wishes them removed i will be more than happy to delete the pics as the last thing i want to do is upset anyone
The working airedale in the US is more common than the working irish.
And NO, you did NOT get permission from the owner of those irishes and pics. I asked him......
Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:17 PM
I would have thought that , in this day and age, we would all learn not to post other peoples photos without their prior permission.
Can someone please advise...cheers JD
Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:07 PM
Posted 28 May 2009 - 06:37 PM
He does want them removed. Adeyhawk did ask permission, but only after they were posted.
Posted 29 May 2009 - 11:40 AM
Those coyotes are caught in leg hold traps that can be dragged so as to stop the animal from chewing off there own leg.The Dogs have to find the coyotes or foxes that have dragged away the traps and bay until the hunter finds them.I think its called PEST CONTROL http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
those coyote's are caught in a leg hold trap, they cant go anywhere, the bloke knows where he set his traps,
how are these dogs earning their keep ?
Totaly unecessary, if you ask me.
sounds sensible enough to me... are they capable of dragging a trap far??? i seen humane leg hold traps that have rubber jaws to hold foxes and racoons, are they any use for coyotes??? i looked into gettin some shipped from australia but apparently they are illegal to use here anyway, regardless of rubber jaws...
Those are my dogs....I am the trapper from NYS that owns them. Unfortunately, these pictures were posted without my permission. Still, I feel compelled to answer some of the questions/concerns seen on this forum.
First, and foremost, those coyotes are ALL in rubber jawed traps. Here in the States, we have problems with free roaming dogs, and even though there are laws against that, it is inevitable that I will run into a free roaming dog or cat or small game hunters using beagles, bird dogs etc. I catch 5-15 dogs EVERY YEAR and I have YET to lose a permission for trapping. The traps I use dont even break the skin, let alone any bones.
Drags are used for a couple of reasons. Mostly, for me, it is to allow the animal to get itsself well hidden for my arrival. Fur and trap theft is a problem....but a coyote that is 20-50 yards away, hiding in the brush, largely will stay quiet on anyones approach.
So, while the drag creates a positive, the negative is in trying to find the animal and not spend all day doing it. The dogs find these hidden animals in seconds or minutes. While a lot of dogs COULD be used for this, as you can imagine, once a dog finds the coyote, it is some pretty close quarters and there may be a fight...so a dog like an Irish that is not afraid of anything fits the bill better than some other breeds.
These dogs are used for coyote calling. You sit in a spot where coyotes frequent, and you turn on your electronic call, generally making coyotes sounds to prey on the coyote's strong territorial mechanisms. The coyote(s) come rushing in to fight off the interloper. These dogs see or hear the coyotes and run out to them....100 yards or 1000 yards. The coyotes simply think they are other coyotes and a game of cat and mouse ensues. The dogs know right where I am laying with my rifle and generally just run back to me.....with the coyotes right on their tail. Once in rifle range, and the dogs are clearly out of the shot, we take the coyote(s).
Training these dogs for trapline and calling work requires me to allow the dogs out of the truck to work on trapped coyotes. They generally run around the trapped coyote, barking and such. This instills the confidence and desire in them to work as calling or drag dogs. A fully trained coyote dog acts "birdy" on scent stations where coyotes mark their territories. These scent stations become natural places for me to blend in my traps......adding yet another facet and benefit to utilizing dogs on the trapline.
Coyotes have all of my respect....yet they are quite a nuisance here in the states. We have an entire Federal program that pays for governement animal damage control specialists all over the country. Dogs are used by nearly all of these G-Men. I am not a government trapper, but have certainly exploited the use of dogs for trapping and calling.
Like all hunting endeavors, ANY hunting is always improved with the use of a dog or dogs.
Posted 29 May 2009 - 01:35 PM
Coyotes are a big problem in Southern Ontario as well. As you well know, guys mostly use e-calls bringing them into rifle range, or drive them out of woodlots to standers. There are some guys that I know who trail them with coonhounds.
I think a good lurcher or two should be able to do the job if the coyotes were called intot the open.
Awesome stuff! Do you have any pictures you would like to share with us as I'm sure the lads here would be very grateful to see them (as I would)
Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:47 PM
Great post Zagman.
Here is a post I made on a site in the States for working Airedales and such.......will add more later but this will depict well their use as calling dogs. BTW, these dogs are not pure Irish, but half Irish/half Dorn (Dorn is Plott, Airedale, Australian Shepherd cross) This is why they dont look the the Irish you expect. I do have a 100% Irish that was in the pics along with my Cross Boone, who is a lot of the calling pics in Montana.
Just got back from several days in Montana and North Dakota.
Took Boone out for some additional training/calling/decoying. It is simply apples to oranges.....calling out west vs. here in the east.
When I say you can see for MILES.....I mean miles. Several times over those calling days, we'd use sentences like: "Coyote, 12 o'clock, one mile out and coming!"
You can see 20 miles, but the stands we chose had us calling to several canyons, drainages, finger draws covering 3-5 square miles.
My host has 20 dogs, most of them started by my dog Rusty (Irish Terrier) and many of them brother to my dog Boone. All of these pics are of Boone's brother, Taz and/or Boone.
I was usually holding Boone and set up behind Frank and Taz. These pics really dont do it justice.....I filmed most of the hunts and if I can ever figure out a way to upload video, will share it.
Here's Boone looking for love from Frank, Taz in front. Look how far out you can see.......
For those who dont know what this is about.....we are preying on the coyote territorial defenses while they are either on the den or about to have pups.
We make mostly coyote sounds, and the area coyotes either answer back and come in, or answer back and dont come in.....OR, just come right in, with no howling back. When they come in fast, you are close to the den and they are looking to kick the interloper's butts......
Those interlopers are our dogs! When the dogs see the approaching coyotes, they run full speed out to them. Generally, the coyote stops, as if they are taking this all in. Then, they either charge the dogs, or turn and run away.
If things go right, the coyotes engage the dogs, barking at them and chasing them. The dogs then start working their way back to us, and our rifles. This is usually playing out down below you, within 200-1000 yards.
Imagine two-three coyotes, chasing the dogs, and you, the shooter, picking off the individual coyotes.....and the other coyotes NOT running away at the shot.
They get so enraged/involved with the dogs that they ignore the two blobs up on the hill with rifles (us) and they just keep chasing/fighting the dogs.
On this stand, three coyotes came up this finger draw.....but we only got one.
BTW, that river is over two miles away....and we could see them coming most of the time. There is a stock tank behind us, and you 'd be hard-pressed to find a better location for calling OR trapping.
The dogs love to give the dead coyotes heck after shot, and by switching to a coyote in distress AFTER you shoot and coyote, combined with the dogs shaking the dead coyote, it is common to have one or more of the survivors charge right back in for more.....putting them clearly in harm's way.
I have trapped this region of Montana a couple of times before....the coyotes are SNOWBALLS......white, silky.....hard to beat.
Though we did get one mangey one!
In the picture above, we saw SIX coyotes on this stand and killed two. Two coyotes fought the dogs down on that flat behind Frank's head for 10 minutes. It was perfect, the sun was behind us, and it was probably the BEST fight we had.......and I did NOT bring the video camera!
Boone had a stoke of bad luck on this stand....he put his head in the air, winded something down a finger draw, and was gone for about five minutes.
He came back looking like this.....
I believe he thought we were murdering him, pulling these buggers out.
We jumped about 20 mulies out of this canyon on the way in....
Again, you can see for miles on many stands.....
If possible, you want the sun behind you, and better yet, you want to hide in a shadow, and never sillouette yourself on the skyline......
I set some traps too......they are still set......Frank wants some trapped coyotes to work his dogs on.....
Non-targets abound out west too.....here's a western possum....
Boone fell in love with some of the girl dogs out there.....this little pup is related directly to both him and my Rusty.
And, if I am as good a salesman as I think I am, you just may see me with three dogs next year.......this dog is 1/3rd Dorn, 1/3rd Irish, 1/3rd Airedale.......a sweetheart named Lucy....buy she is already hell on coyotes at 10 months old. Some of Boone's relations looking on from the rear.....
This region of the west has it all......I want to die and come back there. I landed in Minot ND and drove into Montana. The prairie pothole region was melting with snow.....water and potholes EVERYWHERE. The old duck hunter in my could not keep the car on the road.......puddles FULL of bull cans, bull pintail, widgeon, bluebills, mallard, CINNAMIN TEAL (never saw one). Can you imagine 100 canvasbacks sitting next to the road in a puddle the size of a basketball court, one foot deep water?
And the pheasants, saw thousands....probably at least 100 road killed roosters alone....
Sharptails, sage grouse....even saw Prairie Chickens doing their mating dances.
Merriam's turkeys all over.......was hard to think about coyotes with Merriams gobblin' and struttin' all over.
Between the waterfowl, upland birds, eagles, and hawks.....Audubon HAD to have worse birding days!
I am not a big game hunter, but this is one of those unique areas that has whitetails and mulies in about equal numbers......lots of pronghorns, but not Wyoming type numbers......some elk too.
Country is rolling plains, grasslands, with some badlands mixed in......not big sage country at all. Watch Dances with Wolves.....that kind of country. Grasslands.......
The river breaks are great and create all of these finger draws. Yellowstone and Missouri Rivers right there......Lewis and Clark country.
Goodness.....I wish I was still there. And, when the calling with the dogs works, wish EVERYONE I knew could witness it.
I bet most hunters, even big game hunters, would agree it is absolutely the COOLEST type of hunting you can do.......
In the end, we called more coyotes in those few days than most eastern hunters probably SEE in a lifetime of calling. We killed a good bunch of them, and could have killed far more if were weren't dog training, as we really wanted the dogs to get as much coyote exposure as possible. Sometimes it worked, sometimes we never got another shot at those coyotes.
Such is calling, and life!
That all being said, the dogs you see in these pics are NOT 100% Irish.......they are a mix of Dorn (trapping/calling dogs) and Irish, and maybe even a bit of Airedale.
To the question, the Irish/Mix are heck on coyotes.....no quit in them and no hesitation. My dogs have tangled with hundreds and hundreds of trapped coyotes, and there is a lot more actual contact/fighting in that realm than in calling with the dogs as decoys.
Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:49 PM
Posted 29 May 2009 - 04:51 PM
Great post Zagman.
And here is a bit more about the dogs from that same site.....I had posted this on the same site as an introduction to me and my dogs:
I have two terriers that I use for coyote trapping here in New York State. They are tremendous aids to me in:
Finding specific trap set locations (coyote scent stations)
Finding trapped coyotes on drags
Finding coyotes shot by bowhunters, and most recently, finding a coyote that I trapped that jacked the stake.
Decoying coyotes for calling...
Here's a few pics:
This year's best day on the line. Rusty is in my right arm and is a pure bred Irish Terrier. Boone is in my left arm. He was sired by Rusty, so is 50% Irish and 50% Dorn dog.
Dorns are named after Vernon Dorn, a goverment trapper/caller from Wyoming. They are not a recognized breed by any of kennel clubs. They are a mix of Airedale, Australian Shepherd, and Plott Hounds. These breeds gave him all of the qualities needed for good trapline/calling dogs.
Here are the dogs from a few days ago when they found the coyote that jacked the stake......as you can see, they had to confront the coyote up underneath a blowdown, and they had quite a fight with him. Cant tell you how proud I am of those dogs....last thing any of us need is a coyote running around with a trap on him.
Heck, my dogs are even magazine cover famous.....
Summer haircuts to keep them cool....
Last years catch, dogs on the bottom under the red fox.
Could not have done it with out them!
Hope you enjoy the pics.....look forward to viewing this site in the future....
Edited by Zagman, 29 May 2009 - 09:55 PM.
Posted 29 May 2009 - 08:35 PM