[valentino]

just wondering what opinions you lads have on the difference between flapping and ngrc,...in the aspect of you running your dogs for yourself

both for and against on both sides.....which do you prefere and why? how easy is it to start flapping compared to ngrc? quality of races etc

thanks

Valentino

[Cupid Stunt]

With the ngrc there are lots more rules & regulations giving you less control over the running of your dog. Both have good & bad points & really depends on a persons time constraints, budget etc.
As a rule ngrc track shape & surfaces are much better than flapping tracks, the same goes for other track facilities. Graded wise the flapping dogs are lower as a whole but the top open race dogs that can win countrywide can compete with ngrc dogs no problem.
Flapping is far easier to get into, just turn up on a trial day & get your dog graded. Just make sure its had plenty of running around the fields before you go :D

[maxhardcore]

Flapping easier for their is less regulations , NGRC could do with following the irish system, one of my main gripes with the Ngrc is the kenneling times ie at most tracks dogs have to be booked in by 5-30 imo stupid if gthe dog is not racing till 9pm or after? top end ngrc dogs are 98% of the time the best there is ie derby dogs, minor open ngrc dogs are no better than the flapping open dogs some not as good, there are some class dogs on the flaps, i also prefere level breaks even though i train for the flaps imo best dog wins you dont have to beat the handicapper, im also not into cheating so level breaks for me . one of the best greyhounds of all time started his career on the flaps in the north east SOME PICTURE. he WON THE ENGLISH DERBY, SCOTTISH DERBY AND REACHED THE IRISH DERBY FINAL, thats how bad some flapping dogs are. their is also some real good knowlagable dog folk train on the flaps.

[dennned]

ok , maxhardcore , yes your right about , some picture , but it could'nt win at gretna , there are a good crop of open racers on the flaps that could compete with the best in the country , too , some even better than you think .

[Cupid Stunt]

maxhardcore, on Aug 10 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

Flapping easier for their is less regulations , NGRC could do with following the irish system, one of my main gripes with the Ngrc is the kenneling times ie at most tracks dogs have to be booked in by 5-30 imo stupid if gthe dog is not racing till 9pm or after? top end ngrc dogs are 98% of the time the best there is ie derby dogs, minor open ngrc dogs are no better than the flapping open dogs some not as good, there are some class dogs on the flaps, i also prefere level breaks even though i train for the flaps imo best dog wins you dont have to beat the handicapper, im also not into cheating so level breaks for me . one of the best greyhounds of all time started his career on the flaps in the north east SOME PICTURE. he WON THE ENGLISH DERBY, SCOTTISH DERBY AND REACHED THE IRISH DERBY FINAL, thats how bad some flapping dogs are. their is also some real good knowlagable dog folk train on the flaps.

It makes no difference whether its handicaps or level breaks there will be just as many folk trying to pull a stroke.

A good percentage of ngrc trainers learnt the game on the flaps.

[maxhardcore]

Cupid Stunt, on Aug 10 2008, 11:32 PM, said:

maxhardcore, on Aug 10 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

Flapping easier for their is less regulations , NGRC could do with following the irish system, one of my main gripes with the Ngrc is the kenneling times ie at most tracks dogs have to be booked in by 5-30 imo stupid if gthe dog is not racing till 9pm or after? top end ngrc dogs are 98% of the time the best there is ie derby dogs, minor open ngrc dogs are no better than the flapping open dogs some not as good, there are some class dogs on the flaps, i also prefere level breaks even though i train for the flaps imo best dog wins you dont have to beat the handicapper, im also not into cheating so level breaks for me . one of the best greyhounds of all time started his career on the flaps in the north east SOME PICTURE. he WON THE ENGLISH DERBY, SCOTTISH DERBY AND REACHED THE IRISH DERBY FINAL, thats how bad some flapping dogs are. their is also some real good knowlagable dog folk train on the flaps.

It makes no difference whether its handicaps or level breaks there will be just as many folk trying to pull a stroke.

A good percentage of ngrc trainers learnt the game on the flaps.

no STROKES GETTING PULLED IN GROUP 1 COMPS , EVERYONE WANTING TO WIN IMO , Springwood or was it Springview micky a class dog on the flaps won bolton derby and many others, gretna like everywhere , horses for courses, on a big galloping track where they can run the bends as fast as the straights class will 9 times out of 10 win out, flaps are more specialist due to size and shape.

[Cupid Stunt]

maxhardcore, on Aug 12 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

no STROKES GETTING PULLED IN GROUP 1 COMPS , EVERYONE WANTING TO WIN IMO , Springwood or was it Springview micky a class dog on the flaps won bolton derby and many others, gretna like everywhere , horses for courses, on a big galloping track where they can run the bends as fast as the straights class will 9 times out of 10 win out, flaps are more specialist due to size and shape.

:doh: Well obviously not but not everyone has dogs to run only in Group1 comps & strokes are pulled to beat the grader which doesn't apply to Open races. That said even Eric J tried to use a 'jockey' at times & enter Mickey under a different name to try & get a bet on, the same goes for the likes of Lister & Booth to name but two of the great dog men.

:yes: A few of the tight little tracks both flaps & ngrc are places where a good grader can beat an open racer.

[kreet]

imo i prefer flaps as its all i have ever run dogs on a very good mate of my grandad trained at shawfield for 50 odd years and one of his son's has just taken over his kennels so i believe i have had a good few dogs threw them and they wernt any better than your decent class flaps dogs but its all down to who you know imo if your getting your dogs from the right place it doesnt matter where you run them youl score diffrence is in flapping more people have a hold on there dogs so you have to know how the dogs are running on all the tracks they run on so you know whether its worth trying or not. there are very good class dogs run on ngrc and flaps but its all down to specific animals i would say and what your into . i had a chance to go down to sunderland i think it was or oxford or something when i turned 16 to become a trainer threw a boy thats dogs i had paraded on a flaps track and to be honest the worst thing i ever done was not take the chance. so its flaps for me but thats because thats all i know im 21 paraded dogs for flaps from 12 up and put our own dogs round from 10 was going to the dogs when i was a todler so i was brought up around flaps tracks and that will only ever be the way for me.

[samba]

I STILL DAPLE WITH THE GREYHOUNDS NOW AND AGAIN AND ITS THE SAME OLD
ON THE FLAPPERS BUT THATS HOW IT IS
WE HAVE PUT SIX DOGS IN THE SAME OPEN WITH ONE WINNER :whistling: TOOK DOGS STRAIGHT
ON CARD WITHOUT TRIALS NEW DOG RACE 2 CLEAR
BUT THAT GREYHOUND RACING :clapper:
AND THE GRADERS NGRC ALL TAKE THERE TURNS
MY MATE WHOS A TRAINER WAS PULLED WHEN FIRST STARTED FOR TRYING ALL THE TIME
BUT NGRC OPENS EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN :clapper:

[tote]

maxhardcore, on Aug 10 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

Flapping easier for their is less regulations , NGRC could do with following the irish system, one of my main gripes with the Ngrc is the kenneling times ie at most tracks dogs have to be booked in by 5-30 imo stupid if gthe dog is not racing till 9pm or after? top end ngrc dogs are 98% of the time the best there is ie derby dogs, minor open ngrc dogs are no better than the flapping open dogs some not as good, there are some class dogs on the flaps, i also prefere level breaks even though i train for the flaps imo best dog wins you dont have to beat the handicapper, im also not into cheating so level breaks for me . one of the best greyhounds of all time started his career on the flaps in the north east SOME PICTURE. he WON THE ENGLISH DERBY, SCOTTISH DERBY AND REACHED THE IRISH DERBY FINAL, thats how bad some flapping dogs are. their is also some real good knowlagable dog folk train on the flaps.

Some pictures career started off at Dundalk and Dunmore, he was bought by Alf Pennycook who lived in Gretna. It was after Alf bought him that he started flapping.

Your right about him being one of the best Max, he was a sick dog in the run up to the final of the irish derby and Charlie Lister wanted to pull him out but the owner Steve Spitteri wouldn't let him as there was a lot of money up for grabs for any dog that won all three derbies in the same year.

[tote]

Cupid Stunt, on Aug 10 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

Graded wise the flapping dogs are lower as a whole

I only run dogs at Gretna Cupid and the quality of runner is fairly strong, I think you'd be surprised.

What you've got to take into account is the amount of low grade races run on the ngrc, A8, A9, A10 etc,the vast majority of these dogs wouldn't be able to qualify at Gretna.

[Cupid Stunt]

tote, on Aug 13 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

I only run dogs at Gretna Cupid and the quality of runner is fairly strong, I think you'd be surprised.
What you've got to take into account is the amount of low grade races run on the ngrc, A8, A9, A10 etc,the vast majority of these dogs wouldn't be able to qualify at Gretna.

That's why i wrote "as a whole" meaning overall & not one specific track. There are still some very slow & cheap dogs bought over for the sales at Swansea & Highgate that would really struggle to grade for BAGS racing even.
Its still a bit rough to buy a half decent grader & run for £20 win money though & if you like to have a bet have to with bookies that bet to ridiculous overrounds especially if you run your dogs that are trying every time.
What do the bookies at Gretna bet to & have they altered the drop for the sprint trip? it seems the only negative about the track.

[kreet]

we run at thornton corbie and have been down to gretna a few times at thornton there used to be 8 books and we would be money on 90% of the time that would be not trying for months before hand its a shambles trying to get a bet but there are some decent enough classed dogs go round the track as for corbie i havent seen quite the quality but im not so keen on the track and am only there when my dogs are running . i would say most dogs on all three tracks could qualify for ngrc as iv seen dogs come threw from low grade ngrc and not qualify many a time not stopped where iv seen dogs that only run at thornton go round a 1620 on something like a 1680/90 qualifyer stopped so the dogs cant be bad class.and i dont mean they are going round with a feed in them.

[socks]

i think that flapping dogs are rubbish compared to the elite athletes of the ngrc world and anybody that owns or runs flappers are just to scared to race against real dogs in the ngrc :unsure: ..........

[tote]

Cupid Stunt, on Aug 13 2008, 11:26 PM, said:

tote, on Aug 13 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

I only run dogs at Gretna Cupid and the quality of runner is fairly strong, I think you'd be surprised.
What you've got to take into account is the amount of low grade races run on the ngrc, A8, A9, A10 etc,the vast majority of these dogs wouldn't be able to qualify at Gretna.

That's why i wrote "as a whole" meaning overall & not one specific track. There are still some very slow & cheap dogs bought over for the sales at Swansea & Highgate that would really struggle to grade for BAGS racing even.
Its still a bit rough to buy a half decent grader & run for £20 win money though & if you like to have a bet have to with bookies that bet to ridiculous overrounds especially if you run your dogs that are trying every time.
What do the bookies at Gretna bet to & have they altered the drop for the sprint trip? it seems the only negative about the track.

As I said I only run dogs at Gretna which has a fairly strong racing strength. My mate had 2 bitches that could not grade at Ayr so he gave them to a mate in the North East who past them on to Yvonne Bell at Sunderland,they graded straight into A4 and ended up winning A2 and S2. More recently there was a dog running off the front in the 470m races at Gretna who couldn't win, he was sent to Newcastle and ended up winning A4, A3 and A2. When he was brought back he was beat again when he was off the front.

What I would say is the top dogs on the ngrc will be a cut above the top dogs on the flaps.

I couldn't tell you what % the bookies at Gretna bet to but like most flaps it won't be good. The drop off for the sprint is still in the same place which is a disgrace, I had words with them about it a few weeks ago and was told " if you don't like it you can f*ck off" which is par for the course from them. That is not the only negative however as I think the bends are too flat especially the first bend in the 470m races,dogs can really struggle to get round that.